And of course there were other Jews of the exact same time who believed the exact opposite, but because you weren't raised in that belief you don't even consider it.
I don’t see their testimony refuted by those who were there with the Apostles, living in the same place at the same time. It’s clear that no one at that time could refute that testimony and that’s why the Christian Church grew dramatically at that time.
And there has been nothing to refute it in the intervening time. There have been doubters and naysayers who may refuse to believe it, but that’s their choice to refuse to believe it.
You're completely missing the most important issue here. Does the Torah, the direct unmediated Word of G-d, allow for such a religion as chr*stianity? If it doesn't it doesn't matter how many miracles J*sus performed or how many times he rose from the dead. That's something no chr*stian seems to be able to wrap his head around though; there's this root assumption that the Torah was never meant to be anything but a temporary "preparation" for something greater. In fact, this was never understood at any time. The Torah was never temporary, or "preparatory" for something "greater," G-d forbid. And the Prophets and Writings are lower, not higher, than the Torah. It is the peak as well as the foundation.
However, no one could present any evidence at that time, when it was directly available to them (i.e., *actually being there* and getting witnesses to testify to the contrary of those facts). And so, if no one could do it at that time when everyone was alive and able to testify — certainly no one in the 21st Century is going to be able to testify convincingly... LOL...
Again, your assuming your conclusion. You're assuming that the "new testament" and chr*stian tradition are true, and that's the very thing we're arguing about. Your continual assertions of your beliefs prove absolutely nothing but that you believe them.
You’ll notice that they have over 500 witnesses to Jesus being alive and taken up into Heaven...
Even if this is true this does not justify the chr*stian religion. The Torah was given in a National Revelation to the entire Nation of Israel in which some three million people (including women, children, and the "mixed multitude") heard the Voice of G-d--not a human being speaking in behalf of G-d and not a human being claiming to be G-d. This is the most authentic Revelation possible and even if it were to be overturned (G-d forbid) it would require a similar Revelation by the Invisible G-d to the entire Nation of Israel to do away with it. Compared to this all religions rest on purely subjective claims.
And btw, if you're going to go by what a large number of people see, you'll have to convert to Catholicism because of the large number of people who witnessed the sun dance in Portugal in 1917. Of course, you can always simply ignore that or ascribe it to Satan because it contradicts what you were raised to believe, but if you're going to reject the testimonies of large numbers of people then your acceptance of the testimonies of the "new testament" are obviously tainted by your assumptions and you aren't really ascribing authority to the witnesses at all.
[snip] I don't suppose I can make you understand that your quotes of the "new testament" hold no authority for me and therefore prove nothing.
That sounds like a mighty large number of witnesses, that if they were to be taken into court to testify to those things (all of them) we would have an *absolutely certain* decision that Jesus was indeed the Messiah of Israel, seen alive by all those people, after having been crucified, and also seen by those people actually being taken up into Heaven to be at the right hand of God, until He returns to earth again, to set up the Kingdom here...
I think I’ll take their testimony as more accurate than any one else’s “supposed” and “modern day” testimony... :-)
But as I have demonstrated, you don't really believe in chr*stianity because of the testimonies; you accept the testimonies because you're a chr*stian. You reason in a circle.
The "new testament" is no different from the "holy qur'an" or the "book of mormon." It's just been around longer.
Well, the fact that there were Jews around that didn’t choose to accept Jesus as the Messiah of Israel is evident, even within the Apostle’s writings themselves. The point was that no one could refute what actually happened, with Jesus being raised from the dead, with Him being taken up in the view of over 500 others — and thus, all they had was their *refusal* to believe and not any evidence to refute what happened.
Now, the Jews who did believe on Jesus as the Messiah of Israel, they also recognized, at that time, that He fulfilled the prophecies of the coming Messiah, besides being confirmed in what He did (i.e., what Jesus did) and then how He was raised from the dead, in addition to Jesus raising others from the dead.
But, in Israel’s history, there have always been those who have refused to believe and/or refused to follow what God said. So, that refusal to believe, by itself, is nothing special or new. What is significant, is the total inability of the leaders and others (who refused to believe) to refute anything that the Christians did, at that time or refute what had happened to Jesus.
All they would have had to do, to “knock it out” (at that time) would have been to refute anything of all the things that the Apostles said — or even what they *did* (as in the healings they did themselves, after Jesus was gone).
Again, a total inability to be able to do so. That’s the confirmation that we have from that time.
And as for whether the Torah allows for Christianity. Well, the all the Jews who were steeped and raised, all their lives on the Torah, obviously said yes. Paul says yes, and it appears he was a strong one for the Torah, especially considering he was initially “going after” Christians and trying to kill them — until — Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, spoke to Paul directly and Paul then saw where he was wrong. Paul’s testimony, being who he was, as far as a Jew, is a powerful testimony to Christianity.
As far as a testimony to the entire nation..., I think that Jesus gave that testimony to the entire nation and that you would be hard pressed to find someone (i.e., a Jew at that time and in that place) who would not be aware. Jesus did give that testimony to the entire nation. And a large number of Jews (and then Gentiles) accepted the testimony of Jesus, especially after God raised Him from the dead, which confirmed His testimony.
And finally, the witness and the testimony is there. A person can accept it or reject it, but it’s not because it’s not valid or not accurate. All that’s contained in the Bible, in what we’ve been able to find out about, has been shown to be accurate and valid.
Of course, that’s what it’s all about — in that you can accept what God has provided, in Jesus as the Messiah of Israel — or not. If you choose not to accept it — it doesn’t invalidate the evidence and the proofs that are there — it merely shows which side of God’s salvation, that He has provided, you are on.
Jesus as the Messiah of Israel is the salvation provided by God for Israel and the whole world.
I can’t help you much more than that.