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To: PetroniusMaximus

I fully adhere to the doctrines of grace, and greatly admire John Calvin, but I don’t spend my time attempting to “siphon off Christian from other denomination”, and I don’t think that the gospel message includes “higher truths”.

It’s really a simple truth it’s the same for everyone; Christ Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, came to earth, lived a perfect, sinless life and died a horrific death to pay the sin debt of every individual who will repent and believe on Him. That’s it, isn’t it? God commands EVERY individual on the face of the planet to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that do, will inherit eternal life, and those who do not will suffer eternal damnation.

The Bible is the final authority on all things, not my feelings and emotions, and the Bible tells us how it is that a man/woman comes to be saved. Romans 9:14-16 (ESV) “What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. SO THEN IT DEPENDS NOT ON HUMAN WILL OR EXERTION, BUT ON GOD WHO HAS MERCY.” Couldn’t be clearer could it? Human will has nothing to do with it? God has mercy on whom He chooses to have mercy.

Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. IN LOVE HE PREDESTINED US for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”

Fight it all you want, it’s not any easy truth to accept, since it requires us to let go of our pride. I know all of the arguments against the doctrines of grace, and most of them boil down to the “unfairness” of it. And it may surprise you to know that I agree; it is unfair. It’s certainly not fair that God would choose to save a wretched sinner like me, while leaving most of my old friends (so far) to continue in their sinful, Godless ways. Every day of my life I think about the unfairness of it, and I get on my knees and thank God for His grace.

Did I make a decision to follow Christ? Yes, but my choice was predicated upon His choice. I didn’t choose to be born the first time, and I didn’t choose to be born again, but I rejoice every day in the salvation that was given freely to me by the grace of God.


58 posted on 05/08/2009 3:36:42 PM PDT by paulist
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To: paulist
Amen! Beautifully written. All glory to God; Jesus Christ our only Savior; the Holy Spirit our only hope.
60 posted on 05/08/2009 5:34:30 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: paulist; Dr. Eckleburg
"but I don’t spend my time attempting to “siphon off Christian from other denomination”, and I don’t think that the gospel message includes “higher truths”.
 
You may not, by many Calvinists do. Calvinists also commonly exhibit a certain intellectual pride associated with their ability to grasp the "higher truths" and their supposed intellectual "toughness" in accepting hard doctrines.
 
You displayed this very attitude when you started your post to me by calling me "ignorant". Do you really consider anyone who disagrees with Calvinism as "ignorant"?
 
**********************************
 
"Couldn’t be clearer could it? Human will has nothing to do with it? God has mercy on whom He chooses to have mercy."
 
Yes, your quite right. Indeed, it couldn't be clearer... if only the verses you sited represented the entire witness of the Bible!
 
But they do not.
 
For example, Paul in Romans 9 makes what you would consider a strongly "Calvinist" argument. But the then goes on to warn Christians in Romans 11...
 
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.  Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."  That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.  For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.  Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.  And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. "
 
Do you see how that passage utterly breaks Calvinism? The "elect" can be cut off and others grafted in. WHAT!!! How can that be!?!?!
 
Furthermore,  YOU paulist, YOU and I can be cut off - no, we WILL be cut off if we don't continue in His kindness.
 
That can't happen in the Calvinist universe.
 
But it can happen in the universe the Bible describes.
 
**********************************
 
"I know all of the arguments against the doctrines of grace, and most of them boil down to the “unfairness” of it. "
 
I can assure you that I could care less if what God does is "fair" in the eyes of men or not. God is God and he can do whatever He wants.
 
My concern is not that Calvinism is "unfair" but that it is "unbiblical".
 
I went to a Calvinist church for many years and it is what I heard in the church that convinced me that Calvinism is out of step with the Scriptures. I heard too many passages mangled and twisted in order to ramrod them into the arbitrary theological framework of Calvinism. Here's is an example, the Bible says that God is not willing for any to perish - the Calvinist replies that this, in fact, means that God is not willing for any of the elect to perish. This interpretation reduces the passage to a nonsensical statement informing us that God is not willing for something impossible to occur.
 
 
So, to return to your descriptors, it's not "ignorance" or "pride" or arrogance or the low grade of my mental faculties that causes me to reject Calvinism - it's the Bible that causes me to reject it.
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66 posted on 05/08/2009 9:02:50 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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