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To: Diego1618
It wasn't meant to be snarky.

Denying the self-evident is not generally considered a useful debating skill...at least formally.

I was simply suggesting that you, who belong to an organization that consistently trashes scripture,...

Please define "trashes."

...has doctrine that is diametrically opposed to scripture,...

Such as?

...has repeatedly preferred tradition over scripture,...

which is wrong because...?

...and probably has the fewest adherents percentage wise in your faith that actually read scripture.....

as opposed to those who use the scripture as a cudgel...?

You're doing just fine without it...financially.....anyway.

Hospitals and orphanages are expensive! I suppose we could put our money into more air-time, like our separated brethren, but we've found turning spiritual babes loose with no more guidance than a bible is a recipe for chaos.

Our doors are always open. Those that are not spiritual will quickly grow bored with us. They will not be encouraged to "remain faithful" by entertainment.

201 posted on 05/03/2009 6:26:41 PM PDT by papertyger (Advertising makes journalism an assault weapon.)
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To: papertyger
...has repeatedly preferred tradition over scripture,...

papertyger said: "which is wrong because...?"

Ah, unless the words of Jesus mean nothing to you...

He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' For laying aside the commandment of G-d, you hold the tradition of men..."Mark 7:6-8a

Oh, wait. I forgot. The "holy church" trumps Jesus. /sarcasm
209 posted on 05/03/2009 6:38:40 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: papertyger; safisoft; XeniaSt; Dog Gone
Please define "trashes."

Your Church (I assume you are Catholic) insists that [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2;9][Luke 24:1][John 20:1] all say: "On the first day of the week". You are trashing scripture because anyone with knowledge of the Greek language knows that this is not what it says. If it were to say those words the manuscripts would all include "PROTOS TES HEMERA HEBDOMADOS." Here is the Douay/Rheims version of them all:

[Matthew 28:1] And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

[Mark 16:2] And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.

[Mark 16:9] But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

[Luke 24:1] And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.

[John 20:1] And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

This is trashing scripture because I know there are folks in your organization that can read Greek, they know what this says, and they deceitfully continue to carry on a 1700 year diabolical misrepresentation of the true events. There are good Christian people who are members of your organization who are being deceived by this fraud. Here are the same passages that appear in a newer translation....but one which sincerely attempts to translate accurately...."Young's Literal Translation".

[Matthew 28:1] And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

[Mark 16:2] and early in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun.

[Mark 16:9] And he, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons.

[Luke 24:1] And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain others with them.

[John 20:1] And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb.

The words in the Greek that are being mistranslated are "MIA TWN SABBATWN" which is a derivation of the Hebrew, Sabatwon which translates as "a special Sabbath" 7677 a sabbatism or special holiday:--rest, sabbath. The Greek had no word for Sabbath so the authors of the New Testament used this Hebrew word to describe not only the special holidays [John 19:31] but also the Sabbath day resurrection of our Lord that you see indicated in the above scriptures.

Since you folks continue to defraud your membership by not calling this Greek word what it really is....you are trashing scripture. You do this because you know that it would destroy your false tradition of a Sunday morning resurrection if you admitted it. Your membership is being deceived and unfortunately there are not enough of them to take the initiative and change this unholy situation.

I'll answer your other questions later....I must take a break to see to my dogs.

236 posted on 05/03/2009 7:09:21 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: papertyger
...has doctrine that is diametrically opposed to scripture,... Such as?

I could list 500 hundred, I suppose.... but let's just stick with the biggie.

The Catholic Church gives adoration and honor to Mary that is simply not scriptural. She has been called "The Mother of God" and has also been referred to as a Co-Redemptrix and this has caused many folks to erroneously make her an a object of idolatrous worship.

Pope Pius XI said in 1923 that Mary had indeed suffered along with Christ....and that with Him had redeemed the entire human race. Pope Pius XII designated her as the Queen of Heaven. Your theology states that she was free from sin.....from conception....even as Our Lord had been. It is further stated that Mary was incapable of sinning and was a perpetual virgin. Your doctrines also state that she is to be venerated and anyone who does not do this is committing a mortal sin. The Church insists that as He came to us from her.....we must go through her to Him.

Everything I have here mentioned is totally against scripture and has led to idolatry on the part of many of your membership. To say this isn't so is to deny reality.

...has repeatedly preferred tradition over scripture,... which is wrong because...?

This is an obvious one. If tradition contradicts the Word of God it is wrong.....period!

...and probably has the fewest adherents percentage wise in your faith that actually read scripture..... as opposed to those who use the scripture as a cudgel...?

Well....you may call the use of scripture a cudgel if you desire. I prefer to call it "Using the Word of God". Catholics are not known to be students of the scriptures. This is a well known fact. It is exemplified on these very threads. Instead of answering from scripture passages we (the opposition) generally get "No we don't" or "that's not true" or "your private interpretation does not measure up" or something just as silly with no scriptural foundation in fact.

The Catholic Church teaches that all tradition and bible interpretation by them.... is the final seat of authority. Our Lord himself disdained traditions of mankind, saying "You nullify the Word of God by your traditions." This is what the Catholic Church does every day. They nullify the Word of God.

I'll end this post the way many of your faith sometimes do to me......look "em" all up....there in there.

291 posted on 05/03/2009 8:58:07 PM PDT by Diego1618
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