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To: RobRoy

I believe twisting the word “death” to mean something other than a single and finite event is also a stretch. Outside the bible there is full consensus on it’s meaning.

The whole thing is really simple the “punishment” is death. Death means a ceasing to exist. A termination of functionality and existence. “Eternal” death means you STAY dead. There will be no later resurrection.

There is still something mysterious about death. We can see what happens to the body after a person dies, but we lack understanding of what actually happens. Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man died but they did not cease to exist. When Christ died on the cross, he dismissed the spirit. How does this fit your definition? Why didn't the spirit dismiss the body?

102 posted on 05/01/2009 9:20:25 AM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Seven_0

Your examples are examples of death that is not eternal. That will not happen until the “second death” which nobody has yet experienced.

I don’t know what you mean by “dismissed” though.

On a bit of a side note, I went into surgery for the first time in my life about a month ago. They knocked me out completely. When I awoke in my room, it was nothing like waking from being asleep. It was like time travel - literally.

It was very different from the sleep experience where there is still some consciousness of the passage of time, albeit different from the waking experience. But with this, I was literally in the middle of an “inhale” on the operating table and then being woke up in my room an hour or so later, as if it was instantaneous.

I am thinking that is what the “first death” is like.

I am thinking the second death is identical, but without the being woke up later. And “eternal” death means there will not be a “later” waking up. Yer done.

I had a dream once where I drove a car into a concrete wall at around 100 miles per hour. I hit the wall and immediately crashed through it like it was plate glass and into pure light.


103 posted on 05/01/2009 9:35:41 AM PDT by RobRoy (I'm wearing a cast on one hand. My spelling and clarity may not be up to par right now.)
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To: Seven_0

>>Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man died but they did not cease to exist.<<

Seven,

I was reading 2 Peter this morning and came across this: 2 Peter 2:4
“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons[b] to be held for judgment...”

It reminded me that the Bible is very clear that for all humanity there are actually two “after death” times. First is the time before the White Throne judgment, and second is the time afterward. All of those folks you mentioned - and all mankind - is in the period before the White Throne judgment, so it is a bit like applying Old testament rules to our New testament world. They are valuable information, but not necessarily directly applicable. e.g. I don’t sacrifice animals.

I strongly agree with you that there is something mysterious about death. I strongly believe that not one of us is 100% right in their views on this, but some may be closer than others. Meanwhile, all I can do is prayerfully read His word and really try to focus on pleasing him, rather than what will happen if I don’t.


124 posted on 08/17/2009 9:43:07 AM PDT by RobRoy (This too will pass. But it will hurt like a you know what.)
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