Posted on 04/20/2009 5:26:00 PM PDT by DouglasKC
Thank you for posting those important scriptures.
Thanks.
AMEN! And all the commandments proceed from that one as well. All of them. We love God and we love others - plain and simple. But we still don’t seem to catch on.
Not really. In fact, Hebrews 8 says (at first, verse 7) "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" but just 3 verses later it drops the house of Judah "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Where are you getting "all men" form this? Whoever wrote Hebrews was mixing and matching form Luke, Jeremiah and Paul, and making up quotes. Of course, if you go to the source, Jeremiah 31 opens up with ""At that time," declares the LORD, 'I will be the God of all the clans of Israel, and they will be my people.'"
And, let's not forget that Jesus himself is quoted as saying that he came ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel and not "all men." The "all men" idea was an afterthought as evidenced in Acts 13:46 "Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles." Going to the Gentiles was never taught by Jesus.
Oh, and if you are going to mention the Great Commission (Mat 28:19), don't bother. What is commonly translated as "nations" simply means tribes (the tribes of Israel). And the Trinitarian part is a latter-day addition. It doesn't exist in Bible source prior to the 4th century. They all say "in my name."
I love how you blather on and then tell me if I’m going to mention the Great Commission, “Don’t Bother.”
YOU are part of the reason why so many people NEVER open their ears to hear the good news of the Gospel of Christ. YOU so stubbornly hold to your own interpretation that you won’t even listen.
Glad you think the “all men” was just an afterthought and tha tyou say that whomever wrote Hebrews was “making up quotes.” Making UP?????
Based on what you have written here, God will only redeem the lost sheep of Israel, so where does that leave us Gentiles who were not Jews or part of Israel?
As for the Trinity, are you implying this is incorrect. If so, you need to be honest about your beliefs and clear b/c I’m not sure where you are coming from but it sure isn’t Scripture that I know.
Mark 2
23(T)And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while (U)picking the heads of grain.
24The Pharisees were saying to Him, "Look, (V)why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
25And He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry;
26how he entered the house of God in the time of (W)Abiathar the high priest, and ate the consecrated bread, which (X)is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?"
27Jesus said to them, "(Y)The Sabbath was made for man, and (Z)not man for the Sabbath.
28"So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
Exodus 23
12"(A)Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves.Yeshua's disciples broke the sabbath, and Yeshua agreed that they broke the LAW, but did not, in any way condemn them for it. Did Yeshua abolish the LAW? NO:
Matthew 5
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the (V)Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18"For truly I say to you, (W)until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least (X)in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Yeshua, Himself FULFILLS all of the LAW.
DG
P.S. The “Ten Commandments” is not found in the Bible.
They broke the sabbath rules of the Jews, not the sabbath of God. God intended his sabbath to be a time of blessing and happiness and didn't intend for it to be reduced to an endless series or rules and regulations.
Yeshua, Himself FULFILLS all of the LAW.
Yes, he fills it full. Letting his spirit live through us allows us to observe the law spiritually, through Christ, as well as physically. We can then reap the spiritual, physical and mental benefits that the Lord's sabbath gives us.
P.S. The “Ten Commandments” is not found in the Bible.
It depends on what translation you're using of course. The King James says it three times:
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
You know I love this subject Doug. Its always an entertaining thread. Its pretty much undeniable that something in man can discern good from evil w/out the benefit of writings.
Most of this is dependent upon how we're raised, the culture and values we're raised with.
A good example is Muslims. Many believe it's good, right and Godly to strap a bomb on themselves and kill infidels. Their culture and holy books tell them this. They don't think this is evil at all while of course we would disagree.
Another example is the left. Their goal is to erase the designation of "evil" as it applies to morality. If they had complete autonomy without the salt of the earth to keep them in check then abortion would be a proud, noble thing to do.
Kinda makes my point. This behavior is a warped radical interpretation of their writings.
For a perspective on this you might be interested in reading What Is the Nature of Man?
The author is kind of a dweeb, but I think he makes many valid points.
If a dweeb has fans can you imagine how dweebish the fans must be?? :-)
You're right. The author is kind of a dweeb. Kinda ugly too. :-)
You're telling me? :-)
So YOU say. What did Yeshua say?
The King James says it three times: “
Actually, the translators (or later revisers) chose to use the english word “commandments.” The Hebrew is
commandments, h1697 דבר dabar
which is best (usually) translated WORD. Have you heard the term “decalogue?” It is Greek for “ten words.” It presumeably is derived from the Septuagent (Greek) translation of the Hebrew Bible, which uses λογους , (logos) – in English – WORD.
In my opinion,it was desperately unfortunate that they chose to use “commandments,” in place of “word.” Why? Because doing so caused untold numbers of believers to missa significant aspect of Yeahua's character and work.
You see, the “ten commandments” are not explicitly discussed in the New Testament. But, the LOGOS is.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yeshua IS the WORD, and fulfills the “Ten Words,” as well as all the rest of the LAW.
DG
While waiting for your comment on what Yeshua had to say, we all might contemplate what some of the written, direct commands of God are, regarding the Sabbath (NOT Jewish “traditions”):
Exodus 20:
8"Remember (A)the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9"(B)Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it (C)you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11"(D)For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 35
2"(A)For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, (B)a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; (C)whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
3"(A)You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day."
Leviticus 23:
3'(A)For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.
Deuteronomy 5
13'Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
14but (N)the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Exodus 31:
13"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, '(A)You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is (B)a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
14'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. (C)Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15'(D)For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a (E)sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; (F)whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.
16'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'
You might be inclined to say that harvesting grain was merely a pharisaic prohibition, a human addition to the written law. But, “any work” means “any work.” To say that “some work” is NOT a part of “any work” is a human SUBTRACTION from the law.
BTW do you reckon that the doing of “any work” NOW on the Sabbath still merits the death penalty? After all, it IS a “perpetual covenant,” with “ the sons of Israel.”
DG
Jesus made the case that the servants of God in the performance of duties to God aren't violating the sabbath. He compared it to David, a servant of God, eating the shewbread. The way the Jews had interpreted God's sabbath commandment was wrong. Jesus, God on earth, knew this.
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is [one] greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
They didn't violate God's sabbath. They violated how the Pharisees interpreted God's sabbath.
Jesus had the same arguments with the Jews. They had defined "work" so narrowly that they had neglected mercy and common sense on the sabbath.
Mar 3:1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
Mar 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
Mar 3:3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
Mar 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
Healing on the sabbath was prohibited? Christ was probably thinking...wow...how far have they gone away from what I intended when I created the sabbath.
BTW do you reckon that the doing of “any work” NOW on the Sabbath still merits the death penalty? After all, it IS a “perpetual covenant,” with “ the sons of Israel.”
Of course sabbath violations warrants the death penalty. Violating any commandment of God warrants the death penalty and we are all condemned because all of us sin.
However the example you quote was a criminal sentence for a national Israel, a theocracy, headed by God. We don't live in this theocracy. This was part of their legal structure, part of their legal code with the Lord God's righteous judgment as a benchmark. We don't live in that type of society.
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