i don't know a single Christian that thinks the 10 ever went away...
Posted on 04/20/2009 5:26:00 PM PDT by DouglasKC
Many people assume that the Ten Commandments and the covenant God established with ancient Israel are identical—and that both were abolished by Jesus Christ's death. They believe that the Sinai Covenant and God's commandments came into existence together and went out of existence together.
But is such reasoning biblical? The facts show it is not. A close look at the Scriptures reveals that breaking the Ten Commandments was a sin before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, so arguments that they came into existence with that covenant and were terminated with it cannot be true. Let's notice the scriptural proof.
God's Word defines sin as "the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV) or "lawlessness" (New King James Version, NIV). Therefore, "where there is no law there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15). This is what the Bible clearly says! So do we find transgressions of the Ten Commandments described as sinful before Mt. Sinai? Clearly we do.
For example, Genesis 13:13 tells us that "the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord." Since sin is violating God's law, the people of Sodom could not have been punished for being wicked and sinful if no law condemned what they were doing. We must conclude, therefore, that God had already made available the knowledge of what is sinful.
Here is a clear example. Genesis 20:3-9 and 39:7-9 describe adultery as "a great sin" and a "sin against God." Adultery breaks the Seventh Commandment.
In Genesis 3:6 and 17, God punishes Adam and Eve for their coveting and stealing—breaking the Tenth and Eighth Commandments. They also dishonored Him as their parent, violating the Fifth Commandment.
In Genesis 4:9-12, God punishes Cain for murder and lying—violations of the Sixth and Ninth Commandments.
In Exodus 16:4, several days to several weeks before God established His covenant with the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, we find God giving them a test to see "whether they will walk in My law or not." His test involved whether they would rest on the seventh-day Sabbath as He commanded in the Fourth Commandment of that law—with which they were at least partly familiar. The seventh day had been hallowed—set aside as holy by God—from the time of Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:1-3).
God's reaction to their disobedience is revealing. He exclaims, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?" (Exodus 16: 28). God clearly speaks of both His "commandments and . . . laws" as already existing and in force well before He listed the Ten Commandments verbally at Mt. Sinai, as described four chapters later! Therefore, the Ten Commandments were only codified—written in stone as part of a formal covenant—at Mt. Sinai. Scripture clearly shows that they existed and were in force well before then.
This is stated explicitly in Genesis 26:5, where God tells Isaac that He blessed his father Abraham "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." This event took place centuries before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, centuries before Moses and two generations before Judah, head of the tribe that much later would become known as the Jews, was born! (Be sure to read "Did Abraham Keep the Same Commandments God Gave to Moses?" on page 13).
In Leviticus 18:21 and 27, God calls the idolatrous practices of the people of the land of Canaan "abominations"—actions so filthy and degrading that God compared their expulsion to being "vomited out" of the land (verse 28). What was their sin? Among other things, idolatry (the worship of false gods) and human sacrifice, which violated the First, Second and Sixth Commandments.
The Bible shows that the Ten Commandments did not originate with Moses or in his time. Nor were they in any way limited only to the Jews. They were in effect and known long before Moses or a people known as the Jews existed. They are the foundation of God's laws that show us how to love God (defined by the first four Commandments) and how to love our fellow man (defined by the last six).
This is why, after Jesus Christ returns to establish His glorious Kingdom on earth, Isaiah 2:3 tells us that "many people shall come and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."
At that time, all of mankind will at last be taught to live according to all of God's laws and commandments!
The article is flawed. It ignores two things; 1. that God created man with a CONSCIENCE. The Apostle Paul explains it quite well in Romans 1. Man instinctively knows that actions mentioned in the law are right or wrong. Man failed to live up to the things his conscience told him was right.
2. God gave laws to NOAH, commonly called the “Noachian laws.” In so doing, human government was mandated. Man failed to establish righteousness on earth through that human government.
The point of the Torah (Pentateuch) is not that we need laws. It is that laws do not make a man righteous before God. Only faith can do that. “Abraham “...believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (Gen 15:6).
Agreed and nice way to put it.
At the fall of man, Eve was enticed when told by satan that by eating the fruit she would become “like God,” knowing good and evil.
Often, we know what’s right and wrong; we justify what we do by “legalizing” what is and is not “sin.”
Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a COVENANT WITH US in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT THIS COVENANT WITH OUR FATHERS, but with US, [even] US, who [are] all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,
Deu 5:6 I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me. ........
Ah...I thought so. Thanks.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
With Israel.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
I believe that all these verse describe the process by which Christians are given a new heart. Part of the process is that we receive the holy spirit of the Lord which indwells in us and writes God's laws on our hearts.
Those who are not God's have hearts of stone.
So what about this?
Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
The answer to this seeming quandary is that punctuation is not inspired.
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law,
Move the comma:
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law by nature, do the things in the law,
Who had the law by nature? Israel. God taught them the law. It was theirs by nature.
Paul is making the case that gentiles who have God's spirit, Christians, God's laws written on their hearts, will do the things in the law not because they've been raised with them but because they're written in their hearts.
You might check out this site if you haven’t seen it. It has some good information about this subject (and many others.)
Thanks for the wonderful scripture. It’s evident that God’s laws did exist and there penalties for violating them. But of course the old covenant was established with Israel.
Thanks...it looks like a great website.
i don't know a single Christian that thinks the 10 ever went away...
I think you did.
I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me but I do believe the Scripture you quoted does support my contention which is that even NON-believers have the Law written in their heart. Of course, true repentance only comes to those who recognize the GIVER of that law.
Meanwhile, there is another scripture in the OT that discusses how God has set eternity in the hearts of men and that is another verse that supports that God writes in the hearts of men the fact that eternity exists so that those who believe we just die are gravely wrong.
Oh we are good at that alright. In fact the Jews got it down to a science with all the laws that they came up with even more detailed and filled with minutiae that makes the entire Levitical laws look like easy.
I used to work with a lovely Jewish man and he received a weekly fax about some Jewish law and how it was applied. It was quite drawn out and fascinated me. I remember one in particular and it was about gossip and what was gossip and what wasn’t and so and and so forth for pages and pages.
Yes, God has the 10 and we turn it into the 8 billion.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
The Letter of Paul to the Romans, chapter 1
Basic Catholic theology. And since the Founding Fathers (of the U.S.) had made so many references to natural law in the foundational documents, I had thought it had long been basic Protestant theology. Then again:
"And many things were forgotten, which should not have been forgotten"
J.R.R. Tolkein, in The Lord of the Rings
God knows how many "Catholics" don't learn any theology these days, so I won't pick on any Protestants if this preacher feels it necessary to teach his flock.
>> You would be surprised that many Christians think that the ten commandments are no longer applicable to Christians. <<
It’s called antinomianism. My understanding was that even the Lutherans are no longer antinomianism. They have rehabilitated Luther’s antinomianism to say that those living in grace no longer desire to do wicked things... which was, of course, the Catholics’ position all along.
Well, although I WASN’T BORN in the show me state, I also like proof.
I’ll check.
There was clearly a knowledge of sacrifice to God withing the first generation of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve having a knowledge of good and evil would of certainly had a knowledge of sin.
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