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To: Buck W.; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; enat

Of course. Thanks for asking. Reverence is expressed in English because we don’t capitalize every noun. Germans do so with the language itself. “Denn also hat Gott die Welt geliebt...”

There is some level of age that will be expressed in any miracle. As Marlowe points out, Jesus created a vintage wine out of water. Vintage wine, as we know, requires time.

Necessarily the earth had to have soil, and soil is the result of a process. Therefore, there’s some level of age that would have been apparent. Likewise, a fully made human would bypass birth, infancy, adolescence, etc. There would be an apparent age.

Sedimentary layers, however, would be a different subject.

For those areas I rely on the thoughts of my sister, Alamo-girl, and her understanding of a few things things, to include: (1) That Eden was outside of time, and (2) that the point of the big bang, due to relativity and the speed of light, has a different place on the scale of time than does the earth. Time would pass far more on the earth, part of the rapidly expanding universe.


72 posted on 03/27/2009 7:27:20 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: xzins; Buck W.; P-Marlowe; enat
Thank you oh so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

For those areas I rely on the thoughts of my sister, Alamo-girl, and her understanding of a few things things, to include: (1) That Eden was outside of time, and (2) that the point of the big bang, due to relativity and the speed of light, has a different place on the scale of time than does the earth. Time would pass far more on the earth, part of the rapidly expanding universe.

Sometimes I just finish the sentences - because although many if not most are aware of General Relativity, few actually think in those terms in casual conversation:

The universe is approximately 15 billion years old from our space/time coordinates.

and...

The universe is 7 days old from the inception space/time coordinates.

Both statements are true when one considers General Relativity and the Inflationary Model. For more on that point, Lurkers may wish to read Jewish Physicist Gerald Schroeder's article on the Age of the Universe.

By my understanding, the first three chapters of Genesis are written from the Creator’s perspective: namely, God is the author and the only observer of Creation. Further, that those Scriptures speak of the creation of the spiritual realm as well as the physical realm, that Eden was preeminently in the spiritual realm. For me, the location of the tree of life [midst of both Eden and Paradise] is particularly illuminating:

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. – Genesis 2:9

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. – Revelation 2:7

Likewise, there is no anomaly concerning Day 4 (plants before the solar system) if one understands that the Creation week is speaking of both spiritual and physical:

These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. – Genesis 2:4-5

That doesn’t however preclude a physical type or congruence between the spiritual and physical realms, e.g. the Temple, Ark and Holy Mountain.

In my understanding, the perspective of time passing (space/time coordinate) changes to man when Adam is banished to mortality at the end of Genesis 3.

The Jewish calendar also begins with Adam though I believe they begin counting when they believe Adam was created (as if he was created in the physical realm alone) and not when he fell. Since I perceive Genesis 1-3 speaking of both the spiritual and physical realms, and Adam being created in the spiritual realm and banished to the physical realm, I would not propose a birth date for him relative to our perspective “in” space/time.

Interestingly, we have several other discussions of time and Scripture going on:

The Dirty Little Secret Is Out: Religious Faith and Evolution Are Incompatible (post 553)

Bigotry against Mormons apparently acceptable in Utah LDS (OPEN) (post 269)

Nevertheless, I aver that a Christian must declare the Truth as he has received it.

146 posted on 03/27/2009 2:46:30 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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