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To: enat; Blogger; Ping-Pong; raynearhood; Lee N. Field
I can see why it likes to use translations that are ambiguous.

Hardly. The Greek confirms the accuracy of the interpretation from NKJV.

The promises to Abraham were a nation, blessing and land. No mention of a city.

9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. … 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. … 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
It could not be any more clear. Call it a city or a country. Hebrews uses both images to infallibly interpret the OT promises for us.
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Heb. 12)
Could it be that The System® is clouding your ability to read the text?

The promise they have not received yet is the land,

The promise, according to Hebrews, was the eternal, heavenly city. You bad explanation of the OT does not trump the clear explanation of the promise from the NT.

I don’t see any Old Testament saints around here so I don’t know how they can be raptured?

I thought “the rapture” of futurism involved the dead (those who are asleep) as well as the living. So Abraham and the OT saints still get Left Behind® while Christ and the NT saints head off for “the rapture”. That is your position, no?

Of course you can’t see a “gap” in Daniel 9.

I don’t see it because it is not there, in spite of your futurist explanations. I have not swallowed the kool aid. Only followers of The System® imagine modern, secularist Israel and Russia and China and the Common Market and Iraq and the World Bank and Nicolae Carpathia in the pages of Daniel. It’s the fantasy they have devised. Do not fault the rest of us for not playing along in your Fantasy Prophecy League.

291 posted on 03/27/2009 5:54:22 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Naysayers" laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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To: topcat54; Blogger; Ping-Pong; raynearhood; Lee N. Field
“Call it a city or a country”

Gee, God must have have gotten his promises mixed up,

Gen. 13:14-17, “And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.”

Gen. 15:13-18, “And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates”

Moses got it wrong,

Ex 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

Joshua got it wrong,

Jos 23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, [that] as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

Nehemiah got it wrong,

Neh 9:23 Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess [it]

The writer of Hebrews got it wrong,

Hbr 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Oh, I get it now, according to the special ORS spiritualizing hermeneutic, just like Israel morphs into the church ever time so that their promises become the church's, so does the extensive land promised to Israel morphs into a city over time and maybe some other promises of God morph into something different over time.

By the way, I'm sure you noticed that the writer of Hebrews makes a clear distinction between “these/they” and “us” in Hebrews 11:39-40, “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”

“I don’t see it because it is not there, in spite of your futurist explanations. I have not swallowed the kool aid. Only followers of The System® imagine modern, secularist Israel and Russia and China and the Common Market and Iraq and the World Bank and Nicolae Carpathia in the pages of Daniel. It’s the fantasy they have devised. Do not fault the rest of us for not playing along in your Fantasy Prophecy League.”

Talk does not take the place of interpretation. Explain Daniel 9:26 in the context of vss 25 and 27.

294 posted on 03/27/2009 6:41:27 AM PDT by enat
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