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To: CTrent1564
...Again, what I wrote is consistent with the Church Fathers, the ones who determine the canon of scripture and wrote against all of the heresies that were present through the 5th century.

You can make all the claims you wish. You are an apologist for the RC realm. I am an apologist for Scriptural Christianity. We disagree with each other. Your organization claims that it holds all the keys. Neither I, nor Paul agree. You can parse all you want. We can even go "greek", but it will not open your eyes. i will rely on the Holy Spirit.

What you wrote is indeed consistent with your organization's position. That does not make it so...

*******

Mark 3:31Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."

33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked.

34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."..

He is risen...


95 posted on 03/24/2009 7:49:54 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. -Mark Twain)
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To: WVKayaker

And just what “Scriptural CHristianity” might that be. It is clear that I am a Catholic, but what Confession among the thousands of Protestant Traditions/Confessions do you belong to? And of course, many of those hold to “sola scriptura” Christianity [which is not the Scripture] and don’t agree on Doctrine across the board.

As for your pitting St. Peter against St. Paul, that itself is heretical nonsense. And again, the writings of the Church Fathers confirm that both of them were martyred (Together) in Rome during the reign of Nero.

St. Iqnatius of Antioch [ca 105 AD] in his letter to the Church of Rome states “Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you”. Consistent with the scriptures, note that St. Ignatius lists Peter first, which if you look at the NT, Peter is always listed first among the Apostles, also the statement not as Peter and Paul “did” is a clear reference to both of them being in Rome togher.

Eusebius, the First great Church History Scholar in the Church, records in his work (Book 2 Chapter 25) [A.D 305-325 AD] a quote from St.Dionysius of Corinth, who was the Bishop of the Church of Corinth in 165-175 AD [some of his letters have come down to are times]

Eusebius writes: That both[Peter and Pau] suffered martydom at the same time is affirmed as follows by Dionysius , Bishop of Corinth, when writing to the Romans: “You have also by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planed in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martydom at the same time.”

And finally, there is beautiful quote by St. Ireneaus of Lyons, the great orthodox Church Father who defened Apostolic Tradition against the Gnostic heretics, who similar to you, had problems with the reality and implications of the incarnation. St Irenaus of Lyons, who lived ca 140 to 202 AD writes around the time of 185 AD:

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the Churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient Church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, that Church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the Apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all Churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world; and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the Apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2).”

In closing, the writings of the Church Fathers in the 2nd century clearly indicate that Peter and Paul not only worked together, but also, both died together in Rome. Thus, your continuing to pit St. Peter and Paul against each other is nonsense.


96 posted on 03/25/2009 6:31:39 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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