You said — I guess my question is: Is the doctrine of imminence, Which I believe is scriptural, only pretrib? Do prewrath and midtrib believe in it? Don’t all Christians believe Jesus could return any minute? Isn’t this the blessed hope? As I said I believed this my whole life. Maybe now, I think, not by what I learned, but by God’s grace.
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One of the things that people should realize about “doctrines” is that doctrines are “composite statements” that say in “abbreviated form” — what the Bible itself says — in an extended format, using several different verses, with those verses being in different places in the Bible, and even from different human authors, even though they are from the *One author*, God Himself.
What you’re doing with a “doctrine” is assembling different verses, into that “one statement” that summarizes it easily for others to grasp it in a “logical” and coordinated fashion. The Bible itself is the *sole authority* of course, but “doctrinal statements” are something that allow us to summarize and categorize those functional and different parts of the Bible.
These doctrines *also* come out of “certain ways and methodologies” of understanding how it is that the Bible says what it says.
I think it’s safe to say that those who truly believe that the Bible is God’s perfect and inerrant and infallible word to us — believe that the Bible says “literally” what it means (also taking into account the “structures” of language, too).
In other words, we’re *not* saying that the Bible is — a “fable” put together by God in order to “give us a story” and that it’s not something that “really happened” and/or it “won’t really happen” either. We’re not discussing the “Rapture” from the standpoint that the Bible is like “Aesops Fables” — which are meant to teach us some “values” but that the story itself isn’t true — and thus, it’s only meant to teach us a something that we should learn. That is *not* how we view the Bible.
I have to say this, because a “doctrine” will be developed by someone from these different “outlooks” and “views” on how you should understand the Bible. And *if* we think that the Bible teaches that the Rapture is *real* and something that will happen in “real life” and “in the future” too — then we are taking this meaning from a particular way of “understanding the Bible” (which is commonly referred to as the “literal method” — and *not* as “allegory”).
So, you need to be “consistent” in your “interpretation” of the Bible and use that same “methodology” across the board. In other words, you don’t say that this part is “real” and this other part is only “allegory” (unless the Bible itself tells you that it’s a “symbol” — which in some places it does tell you that...).
I hate to go the “long way around this” — but since I can’t come out and say *exactly*, up front, some things, and be in this “caucus” — I have to say it in a round-about way. And this is it... LOL...
You basically cannot be talking about the Rapture as a real event, happening in the future, according to real-life prophetic events and *not* be viewing the Bible as describing events *literally*. It goes hand-in-hand with each other. You have to be consistent. I say that, because there are going to be “interpretations” — given to you from the Bible — in which someone is given you an “allegorical interpretation” to argue against some part or function of the Rapture. If that is what is happening, then you are “mixing and matching” the “literal view” with the “allegorical view” of Scripture — and you basically can’t have a “Rapture” in the first place, from that type of interpretation. All you get is “total confusion” (which we see a whole lot of, unfortunately, and this is why...).
And if you take entire “theologies” which develop from “allegorical views” of Scripture and try to *apply those theologies* to the RAPTURE — you’re *really going to be confused* — TOTALLY SO. And that’s what happens a lot in these types of discussions, on open threads — total anarchy and mass confusion... LOL.. (unless you know exactly where people are “coming from” in their theologies).
So, I’m saying that you cannot have an understanding of and a discussion of the Rapture and not be dealing with the literal and inerrant and infallible views of Scripture — and make any sense of the Rapture and/or have any “consistency” of interpretation in the Bible. You’ve got to get your “foundational understanding” of the Bible itself down pat, and then you can have a consistent and accurate discussion of the Rapture.
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Going back up to what you were saying or asking — “Do prewrath and midtrib believe in it?”
The question is — “Should they believe in it?” Does the Bible teach it. Is this really a doctrine, assembled from various parts of Scripture, which we can “abbreviate” and “summarize” into this doctrine?
And this question is going to be answered from the literal, inerrant, infallible interpretations of Scripture, as that’s where the “real-life event” of the Rapture comes from, too.
That is where one must start with that. And I said all that above about the “views” that one has about Scripture (in terms of literal or allegorical or “spiritualizing” it) — because you will have *different conclusions* depending on where you come down on these things.
And I’m saying you — cannot even *have the Rapture* — in the first place, as a “real-life event” (if you’re saying that there is such a thing, as the Rapture...) — unless — you’re approaching this from a “literal interpretation” of the Scriptures...
That just had to be a “foundational viewpoint” of the matter before getting into it a lot further...
And it’s from that same foundational viewpoint of the interpretation of Scripture (which gives the *basis* for the Rapture in the first place) — that you’re going to get the answer to your question about the Doctrine of Imminence, from examining various Scriptures that pertain to it.
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All that for the “basis” and to “get started”... LOL...
I feel I should repeat what has already been posted up above, too, as *part* of this Caucus, post #1...
Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermeneutics
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago2.html
[this part gives guidelines for interpretating the Word of God]
I enjoy reading this thread. I learn things, not necessarily anything new about what I believe but what other historical figures have said and rereading the prophetic scriptures is always a good thing.