The Rapture [RAPTURE CAUCUS]

Lamb & Lion Ministries ^ | Dr. David Reagan

[John Leland 1789]

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[Star Traveler]

The following article from the Institute of Creation Research, regarding earthquakes that we have seen and have been recorded, copied and printed in a Christian website, by Lambert Dolphin.

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EARTHQUAKES AND THE END TIMES: A GEOLOGICAL AND BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

Steven A. Austin and Mark L. Strauss*

Institute for Creation Research, PO Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021
Voice: (619) 448-0900 FAX: (619) 448-3469

(Unpublished manuscript of January 14, 1999. These authors published a simplified,
less technical version of this paper in 1999 under the title "Are Earthquakes Signs of the End Times?:
A Geological and Biblical Response to an Urban Legend,"
Christian Research Journal, vol. 21, no. 4, pp. 30-39.)

(From: http://www.icr.org/research/sa/sa-r06.htm)

Our primary concern is with the first part of the discourse, where Jesus warns against being deceived by false christs or being alarmed at wars, rumors of wars, famines and earthquakes:

And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs." (Matt. 24:4-8)

Among dispensationalists there are two main interpretations of these verses. As we shall see, neither confirms that earthquakes will increase as the present Church age draws to a close.

(1) Some dispensationalists see the whole of the Olivet Discourse as relating to the tribulation period. Verses 4-8 are usually said to concern the disturbances of the first half of the tribulation while verses 9-26 concern the second half - the Great Tribulation.53 Evidence for this is claimed in the similarity between the events described in verses 4-8 and those associated with the seven seals of Revelation 6.54 For advocates of this view, the earthquakes identified in verses 7-8 are not part of the present Church age, but rather the tribulation period. In this case, even if the birth image in verse 8 were to indicate an increase in earthquakes (which is not necessary - see discussion below), this increase occurs during the tribulation, not during the present Church age. Present (Church age) data concerning earthquake frequency has little or no bearing on the text.

(2) Other dispensationalists (as well as many non-dispensationalists) claim that verses 4-8 (or verses 4-14) concern not the tribulation period, but general signs which are characteristic of the present age. Lewis Sperry Chafer wrote that the events described in verses 4-8 "are the characteristics of the unforeseen intervening or intercalary age"55 - that is, the Church age. John Walvoord similarly affirms that "verses 4-14 are general prophecies that can find fulfillment throughout the present age, with verses 15-30 fulfilled in the Great Tribulation."56 He adds, however, that these former events "are repeated in the Great Tribulation when what was perhaps partially fulfilled earlier then have a very literal and devastating fulfillment."57 The primary evidence that verses 4-14 are signs characteristic of the present age are their general nature and the fact that Jesus identifies them as events which do not indicate the end ("but that is not yet the end") and so should not provoke apocalyptic fervor ("see that you are not alarmed").

[ an excerpt, see the link for complete article ... ]

Figure 1. Global frequency of the largest earthquakes during the twentieth century. Graph (a) shows the frequency of M 7.0 earthquakes during the entire century (1960 events). Graph (b) shows the frequency of M 6.5 earthquakes after 1930 (4593 events). In both plots a general decrease in earthquake frequency is evident through the twentieth century.

Table 1. Numbers of M 6.0 earthquakes worldwide in the twentieth century. The numbers of earthquakes reported in the National Geophysical Data Center file called "1900.EQ" greatly exceed those reported by Hal Lindsey from his unspecified U.S. Geological Survey source.

[John Leland 1789]

For any Chinese who wander close by.

[Star Traveler]

You’ll have to translate that one, since I don’t know Chinese. What is it saying?

[John Leland 1789]

Alright, I’ll translate the expressions as soon as I can get back to a computer that has Chinese fonts installed.

But it is a Pre-Mill; Pre-Trib chart.

[Star Traveler]

Cool... :-)

[Star Traveler]

There have been a number of threads on Free Republic regarding the coming of the Lord and earthquakes (per Matthew Chapter 24). However, the problem is, that earthquakes do not seem to be on the increase. In fact, they may be on the decrease (see Post #402).

Now, this fact, in connection with the Doctrine of Imminence (see Post #393), plus the understanding that these things mentioned by Jesus, concerned the Jews during the Tribulation time -- all add up to perhaps Christians making something out of what we won't see -- until the Tribulation has actually begun.

If that is so, I don't think that Christians should be telling others that "See, earthquakes are increasing... and we are close to the coming of the Lord..." -- when others can say, "See, earthquakes are not increasing, and may be decreasing..."

This has nothing to do with doubting the Rapture, or doubting the coming of the Lord, but rather -- "getting the facts straight" about what Jesus was saying and when it's supposed to be happening. It's obviously not happening right now -- that is -- we're not in an increasing mode of more and more earthquakes of bigger and bigger size...

Again, this is in support of the Rapture, in the understanding that the Rapture is a "signless event" in that we won't have any "signs" telling us that it's about to happen. What we will have is (what is called) "stage setting" for the "Second Coming of the Messiah of Israel" to set up His one-world government on this earth, and we can see those things being put into place. But, this is in regards to his second coming and the events of the Tribulation time, and not in regards to the Rapture.

SO..., discuss away... :-)

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[Mom MD]

Thanks for the ping. I think I will love this thread. Although it is also fun to mix it up with those who think I am crazy, it is nice for a place for serious discussion!

[Star Traveler]

Amen to that... :-)

[expat_panama]

bttt

[VRWCTexan]

IMO it is not a matter of “increasing” in that since 1990 there are (per USGS) an average of 17 major quakes per year greater that 7.0

Rather the point that most of those major quakes occur in remote locations far from major populations - and /or are very “deep”.

It’s difficult to look past two major quakes affecting millions (Haiti now rated as the largest natural disaster in recorded history per UN study),

Couple that with the verse “fear of tossing (swell) and roaring of the waves” “salos” in the Greek - and used only once in the NT Greek - taking into account that 25% of the world’s population lives on the Pacific rim and are at major risk in these occurances (and the instant media reports) - some might argue media generated “fear”?

Having noted all that - I agree that “signs” as such for the rapture are not a “reguirement” - but rather (IMO) are moreso signs pointing to the soon coming tribulation period (birth pangs).

Then place all these signs of nature in the context of “wars and rumors of war” - (Afgan, Iraq, etc) - a nuclear Iran as a major threat to Israel - the axis alliance being formed between Iran, Syria, Lebbanon...

IMO it’s difficult to just dismiss all these as not being a wake-up call / alert to Believers ??

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. <-[Like the days of Noah, sudden destruction] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

[Quix]

THANKS MUCH.

Does it show Pre-trib Rapture?

[Godzilla]

There is an APPARENT increase in earthquakes by simple fact that there is a better global seismic netword AND increased news about quakes we wouldn’t normally hear about IMHO.

I’m sure that when quakes become prophetic, there will be NO problem seeing the increase.

[Uri’el-2012]

There have been a number of threads on Free Republic regarding the coming of the Lord and earthquakes (per Matthew Chapter 24). However, the problem is, that earthquakes do not seem to be on the increase. In fact, they may be on the decrease (see Post #402).

Now, this fact, in connection with the Doctrine of Imminence (see Post #393), plus the understanding that these things mentioned by Jesus, concerned the Jews during the Tribulation time -- all add up to perhaps Christians making something out of what we won't see -- until the Tribulation has actually begun.

I have been on an e-mail alert with USGS earthquake
center for fifteen years. They have defiantly increased.

They cluster about three days before and after
the full moon and new moon. They seem to be tidal.

Since YHvH re-enacted His Passover and his HagMatoz
and His Feast of First Fruits and the Feast of Weeks,
what is to say He will not re-enact the Feast of Trumpets.

The Feast of Trumpets occurs on a day for which the day
nor hour is not known in advance. It follows thirty days of
trumpet blowing and ends with the final trumpet.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[smokingfrog]

Dispensations chart?

[smokingfrog]

What do you think of this simplified illustration?

[Uri’el-2012]

defiantly ====>definitively

HagMatoz ====>>HagMatzoh

[Cvengr]

Eastern North American earthquakes prior to 1660
Anne E. Stevens

Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa, Canada , K1A 0Y3

Bulletin of the Seismological Society of America; October 1995; v. 85; no. 5; p. 1398-1415
© 1995 Seismological Society of America

Abstract
Sixteen earthquakes between 1627 and 1660 are included in catalogs of earthquakes in eastern North America in common use today. Critical examination of primary documents of the 1600s and early 1700s has established that 13 of these events did not occur, four of which had cataloged intensities from MM V to VII. Some of these nonexistent events have persisted in earthquake catalogs for over 100 yr. Most errors arose when earthquake information was abstracted from lengthy historical documents without regard for context, permitting misinterpretations and misprints to remain unchallenged until now. Quotations from all relevant primary sources document not only the errors but also the facts available for the earthquakes known to have occurred in eastern North America between 1627 and 1660, namely those in June 1638 (mainshock and several aftershocks) and in March 1643.

[Cvengr]

Good summation.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

I agree with you.

Jesus did say there would be earthquakes in diverse places, and I don't think we can deny that that has been happening with increasing frequency.

Quake hits north Pakistan, Afghanistan; No Damage

Another one today.