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To: topcat54; TheThirdRuffian

Not to jump in the middle, but TTR’s statement (of following certain aspects of the Law by Jewish Christians) is hardly taking text in isolation, and, in fact, continued observance of the Law by Jewish Christians(not Gentile Christians) was the accepted practice by most Jewish converts of the time, and today.

The entire “Judaizer” issue centered around the flip side of this; well-meaning Jewish Christians who were circumsizing gentiles and having them follow the Law. Such was incorrect, as gentiles were not under the Law of Moses, but rather under the Laws of Noah.

In that passage, Gentiles are instructed to continue the Law of Noah and Jews instructed to continue to follow the Laws of Moses -— for purposes of “not being a stumbling block” and general good practice.

Nothing at all to do with Salvation; everything with getting along in your community.


183 posted on 03/18/2009 11:07:56 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: MeanWestTexan; TheThirdRuffian
Not to jump in the middle, but TTR’s statement (of following certain aspects of the Law by Jewish Christians) is hardly taking text in isolation, and, in fact, continued observance of the Law by Jewish Christians(not Gentile Christians) was the accepted practice by most Jewish converts of the time, and today.

That is a highly debatable statement. What kind of historical/statistical evidence would you offer in support?

The entire “Judaizer” issue centered around the flip side of this; well-meaning Jewish Christians who were circumsizing gentiles and having them follow the Law. Such was incorrect, as gentiles were not under the Law of Moses, but rather under the Laws of Noah.

But yet there is segment within the so-called messianic movement that recommends (if not provokes) non-Jewish believers to keep the law of Moses, esp. wrt Sabbath practices, feast/holy days, food, etc.

In fact, some estimates suggest that there are more non-Jews in the so-called messianic movement than authentic ethnic Jewish converts to faith in Messiah

In that passage, Gentiles are instructed to continue the Law of Noah and Jews instructed to continue to follow the Laws of Moses -— for purposes of “not being a stumbling block” and general good practice.

Are you referring to Acts 21? There is nothing said to Jewish believers about the necessity of keeping the law of Moses. The charge against Paul was that he was telling Jews they must STOP keeping the law. He never told them that. That was a lie. At the same time, he never told them they MUST continue to the keep the law of Moses. That would also be a lie to say that he taught that view.

In seems from the context that Paul was doing what he was doing to make his missionary efforts among his Jewish brethren more effective, rather than as some sort of obligatory, ongoing old covenant ritual (1 Cor. 9:19-23). Paul knew the status of the old covenant wrt the new. He understood its temporary nature, a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. Once Christ is obtained, graduation happens and the schoolmaster serves no further function.

That is why these temporary aspects of the Mosaic law are spoken of as being annulled and decayed, passing away (Heb. 7:18; 8:13).

Nothing at all to do with Salvation; everything with getting along in your community.

That sounds OK. But works-righteousness is a subtle evil. It is very easy to use indifferent things as evidence of righteousness before God.

And when it is made to be a club to show “gentile Christians” how inferior their behavior is because they do not practice certain things, then there is a problem. Or worse yet, when it is used as a club against Jewish believers who recognize their freedom and liberty in Christ under the terms of the new covenant and no longer walk in their former ways. They are made to feel guilty because they do not see the light and covert back to old covenant practices.

If we agree that this is a matter of being effective witnesses for Christ in whatever setting we are placed rather than as an expression of works that are pleasing to God, then I think we are on the same page.

188 posted on 03/18/2009 1:10:33 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Naysayers" laughing at a futurist is not scoffing at God.)
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