No degree for creator of Mormon calendar

I’m not sure why some of the Mormon faith have a way of finding imaginary insult when indeed none exists. I do, however, understand the anger.

“cultist”

Me too. I realize you're calling me a "cultist" in the most unoffensive manner. I really shouldn't take offense at that.

Silly me..

I assure that if you were to seek out the Truth, you would find its (Mormonism’s) foundations unacceptable to the Way.

I cannot believe anyone could say something like this with a straight face.

It's truly mind numbing that people can point fingers at the LDS and decry our founding and at the same time completely ignore the founding of their own church. But some how, burning people at the stake gets a pass. The inquisitions get a pass. The Crusades get a pass. ....sheesh the list is too long to repeat here...1500 years of torture and murder are some how dwarfed by Josesph Smith having more than one wife...like Abraham did...just...wow.

I could become as God Himself

Do you deny these scriptures exists?

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Romans 8:16 - 17 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

....notice the "joint-heirs with Christ" and the "glorified together" parts. Glorified together with Christ....that doesn't mean, below Him.

Do you believe that Joseph Smith’s (founder) preaching of polygamy (later rejected by other church leaders) was right or wrong? Which is it in the mind of current Mormons?

He was right.

I will finish this response later, unfortunately due to some physical limitations, I can't continue at this time.

“Me too. I realize you’re calling me a “cultist” in the most unoffensive manner. I really shouldn’t take offense at that.”

Take it as you like. Mormon posts here are always knocking Christians so I couldn’t care less how it’s taken. Mormonism is a cult. You live by its tenets; live with the fact of what it is.

“I cannot believe anyone could say something like this with a straight face.”

It’s hard to say anything about Mormonism with a straight face .

“It’s truly mind numbing that people can point fingers at the LDS and decry our founding and at the same time completely ignore the founding of their own church. But some how, burning people at the stake gets a pass. The inquisitions get a pass. The Crusades get a pass. ....sheesh the list is too long to repeat here...1500 years of torture and murder are some how dwarfed by Josesph Smith having more than one wife...like Abraham did...just...wow.”

Like Abraham did without God’s consent? Sorry, I missed God’s approval of Abraham’s decision to take on Hagar. Is it in one of your books, perhaps?

I’m not sure how to take the rest of that paragraph. Do you sincerely believe Joseph Smith’s only wrong was having more than one wife? The souls his teachings are leading straight South concern me the most. And I don’t remember ever giving the Inquisition or Crusades a pass, but I’m glad you at least acknowledge the separation of Christianity and Mormonism by stating, “... decry our founding and at the same time completely ignore the founding of their own church.” Can you find my post that did give the pass and refer me to it so that I can beg apologies for it something I don’t remember ever posting in the first place? I seem to have misplaced it.

“Do you deny these scriptures exists?

“ 1 John 3:2
“ 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

“ Romans 8:16 - 17 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
“17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

“....notice the “joint-heirs with Christ” and the “glorified together” parts. Glorified together with Christ....that doesn’t mean, below Him.”

It doesn’t mean below Him? Are you kidding me? You believe you will be equal with Jesus? Puleeze. To share in the glories of Heaven, yes; to be with Him, yes; but, to be as Him, NO!! Oh, please. Even trying to interpret Scripture in such a way as to set yourself up as God should raise a red flag. Can you truly not see that? Can you not understand that you were made to worship God, not to be Him?

We are CHILDREN of God, not God Himself, nor shall we ever be. HITTING YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH A FRYING PAN: Do you not believe Scripture insofar as God is above all and always will be? Do you believe that being glorified along with Him is saying that you will be glorified AS Him? And that begs the question: Who’s going to glorify whom? If everyone’s equal, who’s left to do the worshiping? Do you really believe God is going to sink to our level at some point in the future? Do you think He is going to sin and become like us so we all can sing along and praise Joseph Smith for passing out tickets so that God can sit around and be with us? No. Uh uh. Assuming that your ticket will one day be validated, you will be worshiping God - not t’other way around. Or, is the task of worshiping going to be left to the womenfolk? (You see any problem with any of this yet?)

Hey, listen. I’m sorry you’re suffering from physical limitations, and I hope you’re not in pain.

Continue when you feel like it. I’m off and on and never in a hurry.

Get well soon (and YES I MEAN IT so please don’t insult me for saying it).

“Rather than wanting to BECOME a god, I now, with absolute joy, bow before His majesty because He ALONE is God.”

What beautiful words, Reaganaut. You ever stop and wonder what we would be like - now that we are children of God - without Him? What lonely lives we would have and how we would continue in sorrowful sin without His grace? I already know what my life would be: just the same sick world I lived in and chose before He came into my life.

When He saved us He gave us the mission to put Him first, and to tell the world that He alone is King of kings, and Lord of lords.

There’s no Joseph Smith to tell me how close I can be to Him; no barriers except those of my own choosing. There’s only HIM. Jesus is my Mediator, and this may come as a shock to some - HE, HE JESUS THE CHRIST, needs no mediator. He is THE Mediator.

He is my Everything.

And how very often I fail Him. Every day, minute by minute. But, HE saves; HE forgives; HE touches me and heals me and cleanses me.

He is my Everything.

I waste precious time; I squander away the talents; and I don’t always hold back my anger and give patience to those in need. He knows I’m not Him, and that I need to call on Him more and more.

He is my Everything.

Alone in bed at night, afraid of what tomorrow may bring, afraid for my family and my friends. In tears. He knows my heart and my heartaches. He says it’s all right, to not trouble my soul. For He is with me, and His Word is final.

He alone saves.

He is my Everything.

Wish I could sing it:

I long to be His possession
Oh, He is my everything
I remember my days of darkness
Without sunshine or sight to lead the way
But a whisper of His voice softly calling
To the arms of my Maker to stay

He is my reason for living,
Oh He is the king of all kings
I long to be His possession,
Oh, He is my everything

After the lightning and thunder
After the last bell has rung
I want to bow down before Him
And hear Him say well done

He is my reason for living
Oh He is the king of all kings
I long to be His possession
Oh, He is my everything
—

Amen!

You ever stop and wonder what we would be like - now that we are children of God - without Him? What lonely lives we would have and how we would continue in sorrowful sin without His grace? I already know what my life would be: just the same sick world I lived in and chose before He came into my life.

When He saved us He gave us the mission to put Him first, and to tell the world that He alone is King of kings, and Lord of lords.

He is my Everything.

That was beautiful, BR. I cannot imagine my life without Him. I am grateful that I was rescued out of Mormonism before I married and had children. I think it would have been much harder then.

Christ is my HIGH PRIEST, MY ONLY PROPHET, AND MY KING. Why would I need more. I have it all in Him and Him alone.

He is my all in all, and every day I fall more and more in love with Him.

His Glory endures forever!

Continue when you feel like it. I’m off and on and never in a hurry.

Get well soon...

Thank you very much. In case you're curious, I was in a car wreck some time ago and took a huge hit to the head. As a result, anytime I have to focus with my eyes....it hurts and it fatigues my brain...I start getting weaker and weaker until I can't hold my self up straight.

I used to make fun of people that wore bike helmets.... not now though...ohhhh nooooes not any more....let me tell ya.

I'm on medication, which allow me to see. Without them, I go blind after a short time.

Well...enough about me...how is your day going?

Take it as you like. Mormon posts here are always knocking Christians so I couldn’t care less how it’s taken. Mormonism is a cult. You live by its tenets; live with the fact of what it is.

No Latter-day Saint ever mocks someone for following Jesus Christ. However, that not the same as examining the doctrines of various churches.

And every Latter-day Saint on this forum, including me, show a huge amount of restraint when discussing your church?

Do you not think that you're immune to being called a cultist? Do you think you're church is some how pure as fresh snow?

I could make a career out of giving modern churches a serious colon exam.

But I don't. Discussion is a good thing. But I'm not interested in tearing you down. That's not what the Lord wants me to do.

Like Abraham did without God’s consent? Sorry, I missed God’s approval of Abraham’s decision to take on Hagar. Is it in one of your books, perhaps?

Yes, it's in one of my books. The book is called Genesis. It's in the Bible.

Abraham was so righteous before God that God spoke to Abraham face to face.

Abraham was a prophet of God. Abraham did nothing unless God approved it first.

What did God send His angel to tell Abraham's second wife, Hagar?

Genesis 16:10
10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

As a matter of fact, the angel was sent to Hagar because she ran away and God wanted her back with Abraham.

Genesis 21:13
13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

22 And it came to pass at that time, that Abimelech and Phichol the chief captain of his host spake unto Abraham, saying, God is with thee in all that thou doest:

Abraham had two wives. God blessed Abraham's son from his second wife. God sent angels to bring Hagar back to Abraham.

Sorry BR...but that's a fact that you can't get around or explain away.

You believe you will be equal with Jesus? Puleeze. To share in the glories of Heaven, yes; to be with Him, yes; but, to be as Him, NO!!

Unfortunately modern churches have no idea why we are on this earth or what waits beyond this life.

1. Father in Heaven will always be Father in Heaven. There is order in Heaven. Jesus will always be our savior.

2. God's promise is to exalt those who follow His commandments.

Romans 8:17
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Children grow up to be like their parents and we are children of God.

What I don't get is why people claim to accept the Bible but then reject 90% of it because it makes them uncomfortable. Each to their own I guess....

Unfortunately modern churches have no idea why we are on this earth or what waits beyond this life.

"In the Beginning": A Latter-day Perspective

By Robert J. Woodford

Pre-earth Existence

The story of creation did not begin with the formation of this earth. It extends back into what we call the pre-earth, or premortal, existence. Our understanding of the events in Genesis 1–3 is not complete if we ignore what went on before.

“This doctrine of premortal life was known to ancient Christians. For nearly five hundred years the doctrine was taught, but it was then rejected as a heresy by a clergy that had slipped into the Dark Ages of apostasy,” President Packer has taught.

“Once they rejected this doctrine, the doctrine of premortal life, and the doctrine of redemption for the dead, they could never unravel the mystery of life. They became like a man trying to assemble a strand of pearls on a string that was too short. There is no way they can put them all together. …

“There is no way to make sense out of life without a knowledge of the doctrine of premortal life.

“The idea that mortal birth is the beginning is preposterous. There is no way to explain life if you believe that.

“The notion that life ends with mortal death is ridiculous. There is no way to face life if you believe that.

“When we understand the doctrine of premortal life, then things fit together and make sense.” 6

We know from latter-day revelation that our existence did not begin with our birth on this earth and that we are eternal beings (see D&C 93:29). 7 We are the sons and daughters of God the Father—his spirit children (see Heb. 12:9; D&C 76:24). We also know that there were opportunities in the pre-earth existence for us to learn and grow and that we had our moral agency to choose (see Alma 13:3).

Additionally, we know that gender did not begin at birth; it existed in the pre-earth life. 8 In the document “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” we read: “All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” 9

We know that there was a council of the Gods in which the plan of our Eternal Father was sustained. 10 This plan included the Creation of the earth on which we now dwell (see Abr. 3:24). The plan provided that while here we would be tested according to the commandments God would give us, and we would have moral agency to choose (Moses 6:33; Moses 7:33). This plan presupposed that Adam and Eve would fall from the Garden of Eden, so it provided for the Savior (see Alma 34:9–10, 14–15), a mediator who would provide the means whereby we could succeed in this earth-life experience and return to our Father in Heaven prepared for the next phase of our development (see Alma 12:24).

A “grand council” was held. There God the Father’s spirit children were taught the plan. The firstborn of our Father’s children was chosen as the Savior and Redeemer (see Abr. 3:27). 11 Those who did not sustain that choice rebelled (see Abr. 3:28). They did not keep their first estate, were cast out of heaven, and became Satan and his angels (see Rev. 12:7–9; Moses 4:3–4; D&C 29:36; D&C 76:28).

The plan called for those who kept their first estate to come to this earth (the second estate), receive a mortal body, and be tested to see if they would obey the Father in everything (see Abr. 3:25–26). The time and “the bounds of [our] habitation” were predetermined (Acts 17:26), and some were even foreordained to callings on this earth (see Abr. 3:23; Alma 13:3–9).

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