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To: topcat54

Rev 7:1-14 leaves little doubt as to the identity of the 144,000. They are from Israel, a remnant. They aren’t Gentiles. They come out of the Great Tribulation.


286 posted on 03/05/2009 4:48:12 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

Should be interesting to watch the

mental gymnastics;

the convoluted Alice-in-Wonderland theological contortions;

the BIBLE MANGLING;

the obsessive Olympic class rationalizing;

the obsessive Olympic class irrationality;

the willful blindness and chronic obtuseness

that the REPLACEMENTARIANS WILL HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE to get around that one key point. Thanks!


291 posted on 03/05/2009 8:00:22 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Cvengr; raynearhood; Iscool; Lee N. Field; Star Traveler
Combing two responses:

Rev 7:1-14 leaves little doubt as to the identity of the 144,000. They are from Israel, a remnant. They aren’t Gentiles. They come out of the Great Tribulation.

You are correct. There are multiple verses in the Bible pointing directly to such doctrine.

The claim that I was disputing was that these are 144,000 Jewish evangelists running around the world converting folks to Christ, or some such similar belief. That is what you claimed.

If there were multiple verses that teach such a doctrine, I’m sure you would have pointed to them directly.

But the fact is that there is none. The idea of 144,000 Jewish evangelists during the futurist tribulation period is one of the myths of futurism. It just gets repeated from meeting to TV program without substantiation. It is a futurist axiom.

As for the meaning of the symbol of the one hundred and forty four thousand in Rev. 7 and 14, that also is not a clear as the futurists would have us believe. Most futurists do not deal with the symbolism behind the number (12x12x1000), just as they do not deal with the symbolism behind most of the numbers in Revelation. See the dimensions of the great city, the holy Jerusalem in Rev. 21:16; a perfect cube measuring 12x1000 stadia on a side. Or the measurement of the wall surrounding the city, 12x12 cubits.

Futurists assert there is “little doubt” as to the identity of the one hundred and forty four thousand because they all agree among themselves. They all assert the same set of axioms and come to the same conclusions. They rarely interact with the larger body of evangelical/conservative Christian scholarship that simply does not agree with their conclusions.

302 posted on 03/05/2009 9:25:47 AM PST by topcat54
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