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To: DelphiUser; Tennessee Nana
DU: As for Joseph smith, it’s pretty clear (except for those who don’t want to see) that Joseph had a problem with the trinity after being called as a prophet and seeing Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).

TN is correct, it is not clear

1827 both joey and his dad provided an account to Willard Chase stating that joey was first visited by a spirit when he was 17

1827 Harris recounted the story joey told him that when he was 18-19 after an evening of money-digging an angel appeared to Joseph in a vision telling him he has been chosen to be a prophet and bring forth a record on gold plates.

1830 In an interview of Joseph Smith by Peter Bauder, recounted by Bauder in his book The Kingdom and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, joey said an angel told him where to find a secret treasure

1832 In joey's own handwriting, he stated that when he was 15 he had a vision of Jesus

1834/35 Joey got together with Oliver Cowdery to publish the the first history of Mormonism in the LDS periodical Messenger and Advocate, Kirtland, Ohio, Dec. 1834. In it Joey said he was 17 and was visited by an angel.

1835-36 Another journal account by joey published in Joseph Smith Diary, Nov. 9, 1835 as found in Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, compiled by Dean C. Jessee. Here he was 14, saw unidentified personages, one testifies about Jesus, but neither are identified as such, plus multitudes of angels. Though this account appears in Joseph Smith's diary, it was omitted from the History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 304

1835 Account given by Joseph Smith to Erastus Holmes on November 14, 1835, originally published in the Deseret News of Saturday May 29, 1852. joey was again 14, but only had angels visit him.

1838 - the official account written by a scribe, not smith has him at 14 speaking to two personages. One identifies the other as his son (by implication God the Father and Jesus, but not explicitly stated) Not actually released to the public until 1844

1844 Account in An Original History of the Religious Denominations at Present Existing in the United States, edited by Daniel Rupp. Joseph Smith wrote the chapter on Mormonism. Joey again visited by two unidentified individuals when he was 14

Clearly the story swerves like a drunken sailor, can't remember his age, whether he was visited by a spirit, an angel, lots of angels, Jesus, Jesus and the Father. What was it DU? only one version supports the current revelation, yet all came from Joey.

Then there is Joseph's comparison of his vision with Paul's vision and how Paul was treated:

LOL, its the 'ol Paul conversion comparison again huh DU? You have listed above 9 widely different versions of what allegedly is the same event. I double dog dare you to show that Paul's story swerved even half as much. BTW - don't forget to use your lexicon for key words and phrases or you will wind up embarrassed again.

Actually, he did, he talked about his calling as a prophet and spent lots of time telling the story to widely differing groups of people, he talked of God, and Christ and did so in reverential terms. What a load of balderdash to say he didn't say it was God and Christ.

DU, I listed 9 accounts, in only one account could it be inferred that he spoke to heavenly father and Jesus - the official version. He spoke in these of a spirit, an angel, two angels, Jesus, many angels, the Father and the Son that addressed him. Facts are facts and TN has them on her side on this. Your history is there above, go forth and embrace it and learn from it and give up your balderdash.

134 posted on 02/16/2009 7:09:17 PM PST by Godzilla (Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?)
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To: Godzilla
Godzilla, I specifically reject you as an arbiter of "Fairness" in what Mormons or anti's have made clear, are saying, or may desire to say in the future.

As a participant in the debate for you to attempt to get up from the prosocutorial table and put on the robes of justice s a mockery, and I am embarrassed for you.

I am simply amazed that you would attempt to place yourself in such a role.


150 posted on 02/16/2009 11:06:17 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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