Posted on 02/11/2009 9:36:09 AM PST by NYer
Bishop Richard Williamson's denial of the Holocaust has done serious damage to the Catholic Church. In an e-mail and fax exchange with SPIEGEL, the ultra-conservative bishop says that he is willing to "review the historical evidence."
SPIEGEL: The Vatican is demanding that you retract your denial of the Holocaust, and it is threatening to not allow you to resume your activities as a bishop. How will you react?
Williamson: Throughout my life, I have always sought the truth. That is why I converted to Catholicism and became a priest. And now I can only say something, the truth of which I am convinced. Because I realize that there are many honest and intelligent people who think differently, I must now review the historical evidence once again. I said the same thing in my interview with Swedish television: Historical evidence is at issue, not emotions. And if I find this evidence, I will correct myself. But that will take time.
SPIEGEL: How can an educated Catholic deny the Holocaust?
Williamson: I addressed the subject in the 1980s. I had read various writings at the time. I cited the Leuchter report (eds. note: a debunked theory produced in the 1980s claiming erroneously that the Nazi gas chambers were technically impractical) in the interview, and it seemed plausible to me. Now I am told that it has been scientifically refuted. I plan now to look into it.
SPIEGEL: You could travel to Auschwitz yourself.
Williamson: No, I will not travel to Auschwitz. I've ordered the book by Jean-Claude Pressac. It's called "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers." A printout is now being sent to me, and I will read it and study it.
(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...
Could be.
“Crematoria and Gas Chambers
Crematorium I
Crematorium I operated [at Auschwitz] from August 15, 1940 until July 1943. According to calculations by the German authorities, 340 corpses could be burned every 24 hours after the installation of the three furnaces.
The largest room in this building was designated as a morgue. It was adapted as the first provisional gas chamber in the autumn of 1941. The SS used Zyklon B to kill thousands of Jews upon arrival, as well as several groups of Soviet prisoners of war.
Prisoners selected in the hospital as unlikely to recover their health quickly were also killed in the gas chamber. Poles sentenced to death by the German summary court.
After the establishment in Auschwitz II-Birkenau of two more provisional gas chambers, Bunkers No. 1 and 2 (the so-called “little red house” and “little white house”), the camp authorities shifted the mass murder of the Jews there and gradually stopped using the first gas chamber.
After the completion of four crematoria with gas chambers in Auschwitz II-Birkenau, the burning of corpses in Crematorium I was halted. The building was used for storage, and then designated as an SS air-raid shelter. The furnaces, chimney, and some of the walls were demolished, and the openings in the roof through which the SS poured Zyklon B were plastered.
After the war, the Museum carried out a partial reconstruction. The chimney and two incinerators were rebuilt using original components, as were and several of the openings in the gas chamber roof.
Bunker No. 1
When larger Jewish transports were sent to Auschwitz concentration camp in the first half of 1942, the Nazis began using - in addition to the first operational gas chamber - two provisional gas chambers set up in farmhouses whose owners had been evicted from the village of Brzezinka.
Jewish men, women, and children, as well as Polish political prisoners selected by physicians in the camp hospital, were killed with poison gas in Bunker No. 1, which was also known as “the little red house” (because of its brick walls). The bunker contained two provisional gas chambers. It operated from the early months of 1942 until the spring and summer of 1943, when four new buildings with gas chambers and crematorium furnaces came into use in Birkenau concentration camp. At that time, Bunker No. 1 was demolished and the adjacent burning pits were filled in and landscaped.
Bunker No. 2
When larger Jewish transports were sent to Auschwitz concentration camp in the first part of 1942, the Nazis began using - in addition to the first operational gas chamber - two provisional gas chambers set up in farmhouses belonging to people who had been expelled from the village of Brzezinka.
Jewish men, women, and children, as well as Polish political prisoners selected by physicians in the camp hospital, were killed with poison gas in Bunker No. 2, which was also known as “the little white house” (because of the color of the plaster covering its walls). The bunker contained four provisional gas chambers, which operated from 1942 four new buildings with gas chambers and crematorium furnaces came into use in Birkenau concentration camp in the spring and summer of 1943. In the period when the Germans needed additional gas chambers for the destruction of the Jews deported from Hungary in 1944, they temporarily put Bunker No. 2 back into operation.
Crematorium II
The Crematorium II building, which contained a gas chamber and furnaces for burning corpses. Several hundred thousand Jewish men, women and children were murdered here with poison gas, and their bodies burned. The bodies of Jewish and non-Jewish prisoners who died in the concentration camp were also burned here. According to calculations by the German authorities, 1,440 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours. According to the testimony of former prisoners, the figure was higher.
The gas chamber and Crematorium II functioned from March 1943 through November 1944.
At the end of the war, in connection with the operation intended to remove the evidence of their crimes, the camp authorities ordered the demolition of the furnaces and crematorium building in November 1944. On January 20, 1945, the SS blew up whatever had not been removed.
Crematorium III
The Crematorium III building, which contained a gas chamber and furnaces for burning corpses. Several hundred thousand Jewish men, women and children were murdered here with poison gas, and their bodies burned. The bodies of Jewish and non-Jewish prisoners who died in the concentration camp were also burned here. According to calculations by the German authorities, 1,440 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours. According to the testimony of former prisoners, the figure was higher.
The gas chamber and Crematorium III functioned from June 1943 through November 1944.
At the end of the war, in connection with the operation intended to remove the evidence of their crimes, the camp authorities ordered the demolition of the furnaces and crematorium building in November 1944. On January 20, 1945, the SS blew up whatever had not been removed.
Crematorium IV
The Crematorium IV building, which contained a gas chamber and furnaces for burning corpses.
Thousands of Jewish men, women and children were murdered here with poison gas, and their bodies burned.
The bodies of Jewish and non-Jewish prisoners who died in the concentration camp were also burned here. According to calculations by the German authorities, 768 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours. According to the testimony of former prisoners, the figure was higher.
The apparatus of mass murder in this building functioned, with interruptions, from March 1943 until October 7, 1944. The building was burned down on the day of the mutiny of the Jewish prisoners from the Sonderkommando.
Crematorium V
The Crematorium V building contained a gas chamber and furnaces for burning corpses. Thousands of Jewish men, women and children were murdered here with poison gas, and their bodies burned.
The bodies of Jewish and non-Jewish prisoners who died in the concentration camp were also burned here. According to calculations by the German authorities, 768 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours. According to the testimony of former prisoners, the figure was higher.
At times, the bodies of the people who had been murdered were also burned on pyres in pits located near Crematorium V and the so-called bunkers.
The apparatus of mass murder in this building functioned, with interruptions, from April 1943 until January 1945. In connection with the operation intended to remove the evidence of their crimes, the SS blew up the building on January 26, 1945.”
Source: The State Museum of Auschwitz-Birkenau.
“Making the gas chamber, — and not mass murder by the godless state — the centerpiece also denies something. It denies, or at least pulls the attention away from the victims of Communism, another “purely exterminationist, annihilationist” crime against humanity.”
It is not an apples and oranges argument. Speaking of the horrors of the Holocaust does not deny the horrors committed by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or any other dictator, be it from Communism, Fascism, or just a plain old dictatorship. One can speak to all of them. We humans are very capable of chewing gum and rubbing our tummies at the same time. It is not an either/or discussion. One does not take away from the horrors of the other. Your argument here is a false one. I don’t understand why you keep on trying to defend the indefensible.
Of course. They are all horrible, inexcusable crimes regardless of technology used. That was the point I was making.
I do not defend Williamson blindly and don't subscribe to his views. But I want him to stand accused accurately, for the views he actually holds, and also in the context of other deniers of evil. I can point out any number of people in position of authority who question the intentions, the scope, and the methods of killing in the Gulag. I don't see that creating a public outcry. So, I conclude, that this episode is heated up by the media because it has the potential to hurt the Catholic Church, and to slow the momentum toward greater traditionalism in the Church, and I happen to be Catholic who welcomes these changes.
“He’s an anti-semite
Could be.”
Is. Bring yourself to use the correct word.
“I can point out any number of people in position of authority who question the intentions, the scope, and the methods of killing in the Gulag. I don’t see that creating a public outcry. So, I conclude, that this episode is heated up by the media because it has the potential to hurt the Catholic Church, and to slow the momentum toward greater traditionalism in the Church, and I happen to be Catholic who welcomes these changes.”
You know doggone well why this ended up in the media at this time and to such a great extent. Williamson opened his big SSPX’er mouth (he is a member you know) just as the Pope was lifting the excommunications of SSPX Bishops, of which he is one. Don’t blame the media here; blame Williamson’s incredibly nasty timing that he knew on his part would damage the Catholic Church immensely.
Williamson is the one that hurt the Catholic Church and the reconciliation effort with the SSPX’ers; he sabotaged the effort intentionally because he did not want that reconciliation to occur. He wants the SSPX to remain apart from the mainstream Catholic Church, even though many SSPX’ers want reconciliation. He is a nasty, vicious anti-semite who acted specifically to hurt the Catholic Church, the Pope by making him look like an anti-semite too, and the reconciliation efforts. Put blame where it truly belongs, and that isn’t on the media, it is on Williamson, and you continue to defend him.
Regarding his intention to hurt the Church, he had this to say (from the Spiegel interview):
In the Old Testament, the Prophet Jonah tells the sailors when their ship is in distress: " Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you." The Society has a religious mission that is suffering because of me. I will now examine the historic evidence. If I do not find it convincing, I will do everything in my power to avoid inflicting any further harm on the Church and the Society.
Doesn't sound like someone who wishes to hurt the Church or is an irrational hater.
Doesn’t sound like someone who wishes to hurt the Church or is an irrational hater.
Oh yeah, 29 years after he read his “book” he bases his arguments against the Holocaust on, just now he is going to study the matter to see if he is right or wrong, and only when he gets around to it and it’s going to take a long time, according to him. It’s a pity you are so myopic in your defense of this man, and like Petronski, I no longer wish to further discuss this matter with you. My idea of morality and yours are vastly different obviously.
There is a lot of stuff I learned in the 80’s and still remember it. That surprises you?
I have read that only the Sephardic Jews are Semites and they comprise a very small per centage (10%) of Jews.
I have also heard that the Sephardic Jews are treated very poorly in Israel,practically as bad as the Palestinians.
I think people should support Williamson's desire to do his research,the truth will out and that is what we should all want,at all times,no matter how painful that truth may be.
“I think people should support Williamson’s desire to do his research,the truth will out and that is what we should all want,at all times,no matter how painful that truth may be.”
Oh for heaven sakes, nothing could be more researched than the Holocaust. And this jerk Williamson had 29 years to do his research in, and chose not to. That’s because he is an anti-semite (the common usage of the word as known to everyone except it appears, you), which is a Jew hater. Maybe you just don’t want to acknowedge just how painful the truth of the Holocaust is. Look in the mirror to find out who you truly are and what you truly believe. A little bit too much like Williamson does, might I suggest?
A spiritual person must be able see evil. This man can’t see evil - - he’s not fit to be a Priest.
Not unless we change the meaning of Jew or Judaism becomes Christianity. For an individual Jew it means converting to Christianity and no longer being a Jew.
I believe this is the point of the quote.
Many have been mislead by the syncretism of the fourth century The belief of replacement theology is in your assertions It is clear that replacement theology leads to the sin of antisemitism. When one is anti-Semitic they hate Yah'shua the Jewish messiah. Peter and all of the apostles were and remain Jews. Yah'shua is/was and will always be a Jew. He is the Jewish Messiah. Yah'shua will rule the world with a rod of iron from the Be blessed that you have been permitted to be grafted into the olive tree. I urge you to seek the face of YHvH and read Romans 9, 10 an 11Yes.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
and think it's Christianity.
throne of King David in Jerusalem for a thousand years.
see my post in 42 above.
under the illumination of the Spirit of G-d.
So your view is that, like Peter and the other apostles, all Jews should recognize Jesus the Messiah and His Divinity?
All Jews will one day recognize Yah'shua as their Salvation Yes. Paul spells this out clearly in Romans 11 as cited above.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
and either accept or reject Him as their messiah.
Christians follow Paul's teaching; Jews do not. They threw him out of the synagogue, remember?
All Jews will one day recognize Yah'shua as their Salvation…
Ah replacement theology, eh?
Christians follow Paul's teaching; Jews do not. They threw him out of the synagogue, remember?
XS>All Jews will one day recognize Yah'shua as their Salvation…
Ah replacement theology, eh?
Be Blessed that you have been permitted to be grafted into the olive tree. See Romans 11:17 to 11:24. If you are not a Jew, you have been grafted into the the olive tree.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
It was Judaism then and now that rejected Paul’s teaching. Judaism did not “become” Christian.
So, they are two beliefs; and your view remains: replacement of Jewish beliefs with Christian beliefs.
Probably:
ROMANS 11:28
28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
______________________________________________________
Of course, what he is quoted as saying (could be a faulty translation of German) is NOT what the verse says. Paul is saying that they are enemies of *God*; (because that was necessary for the Gospel to occur) but that does not mean that God hates the Jews, NO. God has loved them all along, even though “...a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in...”
The God of heaven loves the Jews, always has, and always will. This is clearly stated in verse
” 26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written...”
God DID love the Jews, and DOES love the Jews, and always WILL love the Jews. No follower of Yeshua has any Biblical authority, or any other right, to hate the Jews. It is Un-Christian to do so.
DG
A clear reading of Romans 9,10 & 11 underAmen !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
the illumination of the Sprit of Elohim show
who is grafted into whom.
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