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To: Alamo-Girl
In other words you are unable or unwilling to learn from your mistakes or accept or modify your thesis based upon new knowledge.

Proteins convey messages. No Proteins (not just Prions) are made of RNA or DNA. Prion misfolding IS the source of their pathology.

125 posted on 01/27/2009 11:47:21 AM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

[[In other words you are unable or unwilling to learn from your mistakes or accept or modify your thesis based upon new knowledge.]]

That’s not hte case at all- you’re unwilling to admit message is nothign unless acted upon- which is hte central issue of htis whole article. What was it acted upon by? Higher info- what directs that higher info? Metainfo- would higher info be able to sustain the species without metainfo already present anticipating changes? NO! it certianly would not.

[[DNA also cannot convey the message until acted upon by an outside influence. Often that “outside influence” is the message conveyed by a signal transduction pathway involving proteins CONVEYING A MESSAGE, that leads to the activation of a protein transcription factor that allows for a particular DNA gene to be able to convey its message.]]

you again apparently are missing hte point- The protein, once again, can NOT convey any message unless acted uponm in the first place- arguing in circles Allmen isn’t a valid argument tactic- the proteien can NOT get that message to activate ANYTHING UNTIL it too is acted upon. The message lies stagnant UNTIL acted upon.

[[It needs to exist and be acted upon within a context of proteins that contain and convey messages in order for its information to have any value.]]

so now your argument has evovled from ‘contain’ to ‘convey’, but ignores hte fact that contained info is useless unless it is acted upon?


134 posted on 01/27/2009 12:02:30 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: allmendream; betty boop; CottShop
I have not made mistakes on this issue. My wording may be sloppy but I am not in error. If you want elegance, ask betty boop.

Proteins do not contain DNA or RNA. They do have information content in that they are necessarily part of the channel, much like a land line would be to a phone conversation. But they are not the message, nor the successful communication of the message.

Prions, which are proteins - albeit misfolded proteins - are in effect "noise" in the channel element of Shannon's mathematical model of communications.

The conveyance of a message - the channel - is not the successful communication of it. The land line is not the conversation. The computer is just potential until communications occur.

Successful communication (Shannon) consists of message, sender, encoding, channel, noise, decoding and receiver.

Information is an action, it is not the information content itself much less the message.

Information is the reduction of uncertainty (Shannon entropy) in the receiver (or molecular machine) as it goes from a before state to an after state.

Jeepers. I can't believe I actually said it all over again.

136 posted on 01/27/2009 12:03:53 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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