Posted on 01/15/2009 9:50:50 AM PST by NYer
.- A new survey of denominational loyalty reports that churchgoing Catholics are significantly less likely than churchgoing Protestants to change denominations.
Six out of ten active Catholics would only consider attending a Catholic church, while about 30 percent would prefer attending a Catholic church but would consider others, the survey says. Eleven percent of churchgoing Catholics reportedly do not show a specific preference for attending a Catholic church.
By contrast, only 16 percent of Protestant churchgoers will only consider attending a church of their present denomination. About 51 percent express a preference for one denomination, while 33 percent do not have any preference for a specific denomination.
Phoenix-based Ellison Research released the results of the poll on Monday.
The good news for the Catholic church is that six out of ten Catholics will not even consider attending church in any other denomination, which is far higher than for Protestants. The bad news, of course, is that four out of ten active Catholics would at least be open to another denomination, even though most would prefer to remain in the Catholic Church, commented Ron Sellers, president of Ellison Research.
The survey of a representative sample of 1,007 American adults included 471 respondents who regularly attend worship services at a church broadly considered to be in the Christian tradition, categorized into Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mormon, and Orthodox.
Respondents who attend worship services at least once a month were first asked the specific denomination of the church they attend most often. This distinguished Southern Baptist from Free Will Baptist, for example.
The respondents were then asked what role that denomination would play if they could no longer attend their current church, in the case it closed or the respondent moved.
Sellers explained that there may be additional factors affecting the difference between Catholic and Protestant denominational loyalty.
Its not as though there are two hundred different Roman Catholic denominations, he said. On the Protestant side, there are scores of different denominations, with some of them fairly similar in practice and theology.
The story of this research is that many Protestants may not see a lot of difference among some of these denominations, Sellers said.
For comparison, Ellison Research asked Americans about their loyalty to certain brands in more than 32 categories of products and services. Respondents expressed between about 10 to 20 percent exclusive loyalty to brands like automobiles or toothpaste, while between about 60 to 70 percent reported a brand preference.
Respondents were especially loyal to toothpaste, with 22 percent saying they use one brand exclusively.
It may not be lack of loyalty so much as it is the presence of so many options that is causing Protestants to be about as loyal to a brand of toothpaste or bathroom tissue as they are to their church denomination, Sellers remarked.
Among all churchgoing respondents, three out of ten said they would only consider attending one denomination, while 44 percent said they have one preferred denomination but would also consider others. Eleven percent reported a small number of denominations they would consider.
According to the survey results, denominational loyalty does not vary significantly by gender, household income, age, or type of community. It does vary by race or ethnicity and by region of the United States.
Hispanic churchgoers, who are majority Catholic, are the most intensely loyal to their denomination. African-Americans reportedly have the least denominational loyalty.
Denominational loyalty is highest in the Northeast U.S., where Catholicism is more common than elsewhere in the country. Such loyalty is lowest in the South, where Catholicism is less common.
People who report attending a non-denominational church, the Ellison Research survey says, are actually more committed to remaining non-denominational than churchgoers in Protestant denominations are to staying within their denomination. About 29 percent of non-denominational churchgoers will only consider a non-denominational church, while 32 percent express a preference for a non-denominational church.
It's right in the purgatory verse you posted...
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;< br> 1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The verses are talkin about the WORK, not the man...
If you have good works, you will be rewarded...If you have bad works, they will be burned...Not the man, the WORKS...
Under the law, you are accountable for those bad works...But under Grace, the works are burned,,,Not accountable to you...Therefore, you are saved and suffer a loss of REWARDS...
YOU WILL BE SAVED BY THE FIRE (that burns up your bad works instead of counting you responsible for them), NOT CONDEMNED BY IT...
And further, there is no indication whatsoever that this process take more than part of a split second...It is NOT purgatory by any stretch of the imagination...
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Hey, I'm just gettin' started...How many of 'em do you need???
He, the faithful, still has to make the decision to do the work. Some do, some don't. People respond to grace differently.
Why would you say that?
How many of 'em do you need???
What, do you think, in the quotes you provided contradicts anything I posted?
“I do agree that Christ started one Church the Christian church. That church is comprised of those that follow Him, His teachings, and accepted His Salvation. Ive seen no evidence at all that the Catholic church has a monopoly on Christs teachings.”
How about the fact that they were the ONLY Christian Church for the first 1000 or so years after Christ’s death. They were the vehicle through which Christianity spread throughout the lands. Not some Protestant Church which didn’t come into being until the Protestant Reformation in what, the 1500’s? There was no Protestant Church until Protestants broke away from the Catholic Church and made up their own rules to justify their existence as far a I can see. So I’d say, the Catholic Church indeed does have a monopoly on the Christian religion, a monopoly that was broken up by Martin Luther and other splinter groups, like Calvin and King Henry VIII.
Snake, your Protestant religions didn’t even exist for over a thousand years. I doubt that Protestants have any corner on the religious market. I repeat once again what Martin Luther said just before dying (paraphrasing), now any milkmaid can start a religion. He foresaw the future, and hence the 30,000 + Protestant religions. I come from a split family, half Lutheran and half Catholic, so I’m not talking through my hat here.
As I have aged, I come down on the Catholic side of being the original one true Christian religion, and every other Christian religion that developed much later in medieval times is an offshoot or breakaway from that one Catholic religion. Prove otherwise as to what I say here, please. And don’t quote scripture to suit your Protestant needs here. Don’t pluck out a biblical phrase or two to justify your by scripture alone philosophy. First, you are interpreting from a bible that was written (inspired by God) and interpreted for a thousand years by Catholics, so you are reinterpreting their bible and their words. You use for your inspiration a Catholic book, not a Protestant book until Protestants chose to change the book and the meaning of the words therein after Martin Luther broke away and was kicked out of the Catholic Church. Hence the King James bible that so many Protestants rely on. But the whole basis of the Protestant bibles is the original Catholic bible and Catholic Christian doctrine. It seems to me that Protestants have to say sola scriptura as it is the only way to justify their break away from the original Catholic Church. We don’t have to go through the Catholic hierarchy because we don’t believe it is necessary (although it was very necessary for the first thousand years or so, wasn’t it). An easy justification for Protestant religions when you just bypass the first thousand years and then say, oh no, that religious doctrine was faulty and we can now start a new Christian religion by saying the words in the Catholic bible are all we have to fall back on, so we will call it something else, sola scriptura. That sola scriptura is all Catholic! Ok, snake, your turn.
“The verses are talkin about the WORK, not the man...
If you have good works, you will be rewarded...If you have bad works, they will be burned...Not the man, the WORKS...
Under the law, you are accountable for those bad works...But under Grace, the works are burned,,,Not accountable to you...Therefore, you are saved and suffer a loss of REWARDS...
YOU WILL BE SAVED BY THE FIRE (that burns up your bad works instead of counting you responsible for them), NOT CONDEMNED BY IT...”
What a crazy interpretation of Christianity. So Hitler can be sitting up there in Heaven by your interpretation of a couple of lines out of the bible that YOU choose to interpret as such. You have managed to separate man from his works. Wonderful. According to you, those works have no consequence. Then anyone can, in the last minute of their life, say the magic words, Froggy, and end up in Heaven. Then, therefore, there must be no hell, if anyone can be saved in the last minutes of their life by intoning a belief in Christ. What purpose would there be for a hell? Who would go there if anyone can be saved regardless of how they lived their life or how rotten they were. I’d prefer to believe they would rot forever in Purgatory rather than make it to the pearly gates. Makes a good justification for Purgatory, doesn’t it, if your interpretation is somehow right. I don’t think the early Cristians believed rotten people would automatically go to heaven. I think they believed a rotten person would end up in hell.
Thank God He sent Jesus and not you...
Obviously you don't spend much time in God's word...Jesus came to save the lost, not the religious...He came to heal the sick, not the healthy...
if anyone can be saved in the last minutes of their life by intoning a belief in Christ. What purpose would there be for a hell?
I'd say you have not experienced Salvation...Salvation is not a word you speak, and it certainly is not works you perform...And it is not getting wet at a baptism...
Salvation is a change of heart...When you experience it, you will know you are one with Jesus...
I dont think the early Cristians believed rotten people would automatically go to heaven. I think they believed a rotten person would end up in hell.
I got news for you...Anyone and everyone who has not accepted Jesus as their Saviour is a rotton person...Early Christians knew that...Because that's what Jesus taught us...
What a crazy interpretation of Christianity.
Crazy??? Did you bother to read the verses??? Do you understand how judgemnt works under the law and under Grace???
If I'm wrong, then you tell me what the verses say...
Because the WORKS get burned, NOT the people...READ THE VERSE...It is NOT a proof text of your purgatory...
All I can say is back away from the bar and sit down...Those scriptures are written in 8th grade English...If you can't see what they say, I guess you need to consult with your pope...
“Obviously you don’t spend much time in God’s word...Jesus came to save the lost, not the religious...He came to heal the sick, not the healthy...”
Oh, I see, the healthy and the religious don’t get saved, just if you are poor (preferably on welfare) or a heathen. What a screwed up version of Christianity you follow.
“If I’m wrong, then you tell me what the verses say...”
Oh, you mean those verses from the original Catholic Bible?
Yah, if that works for you...Here's your Jerome's Catholic version:
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation: and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. 1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
Can you handle the Catholic version???
It IS a mystery to you...Fact is, if you're not Jewish, you can't be saved...
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.
Mat 10:6 But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
God is both ALL merciful and ALL just.
Thus every soul gets what they truly deserve in the afterlife.
No earthly voice has a vote in this.To presume to know the mind of the Almighty at every individual’s judgement may be a mortal sin.
Because it would have eaten away at his conscience. Pray for him. I recall Scott Hahn recounting how he came across the rosaries his grandmother once prayed and 'broke them apart' because he viewed them as shackles. That action probably weighs heavy on his heart now.
The concept of Purgatory does not necessarily mean literal burning; what is essential to it is purification. In the metaphor offered by St. Paul man is the building so you can say that lower-quality parts of man himself are burning, as well as his poor works are burning.
I don’t see anything in the beautiful scripture you posted that contradicts the conscept of purgatory, or the fact that “saved” in the Scripture is always in a continued passive tense, “you are [being] saved” or future passive tense “you will be saved”. Unless it talks of healing, of course. These verses are no exception. The one you highlighted in read is in present tense also and refers to the future possible condemnation.
Also no need to get testy with me: I cannot respond to you in a meaningful way if you do not explain to me where the disagreement is.
I agree with you that the survey is nearly meaningless, at least as appears from the article. I had a similar reaction in 16.
We don’t have “pro-Abortion Bishops”. We have bishops that are not sufficently forceful in condemning pro-abortion views. Perhaps that is what you meant, but the fact is that no Catholic bishop disagrees with the dogmatic teaching about abortion. Whom to ex-communicate and when is, on the other hand, a so-called pastoral decision that each prelate makes on his own depending on the insights that he has, many of which are private confessional material.
I assume you're literate and can read history when so motivated. See what the so-called Church Fathers of the 2nd and 3rd C. had to say about the scriptural validity of the Petrine Dotrine and the notion that "church traditions" can supercede the 1st C. inspired text, as the RCC undeniably does today.
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