Posted on 01/05/2009 2:54:13 AM PST by GonzoII
Ping.
Some beautifully scripted thoughts here but in the nature of having more fun, my Senior Pastor is a very, very, VERY old man who actually was there at the time, so I shall ask for a second opinion....
;^)
And may the Truth win out, denomination notwithstanding!
I am currently teaching a course on church history to Chinese students, and we are currently in the 13th and 14th centuries. We are at the time of the Lollards in Germany and England, and John Wycliffe. We started with heavy documentation from the first three centuries dealing with Christianity in Antioch to Carthage to the south, and Antioch to Spain on the north of the Med.
What we do discover is that there is a lot of revisionist history from the Roman Church, especially from the time of Augustine. Everything must be made to appear to have an origin in what was created after Nicea (325 AD)
And we also notice that not one passage of Scripture quoted in the posted article says anything about a world-wide earthly religious institution based in the city of Rome.
“Fun” indeed, and we do not feel “crushed” at all, because we know how to read and research. The author agrees that others than members of the RCC institution have been brought to Christ, and that means that they (we)also have the Holy Spirit to guide us.
What is really amazing is how that the “Catholics” admire the “Protestants” (of course, there are millions of Christians who have never been either one) for their attention to Bible reading and study, when several of their own councils had put a ban on personal Bible reading.
But since their is so much revisionism out there (second to the “Catholic” institution, the greatest of the historical revisers for their own benefit are probably what are known as “Landmark Baptists”), it is a wonderful thing that genuine Christianity doesn't depend on historical data written by men for a foundation or Final Authority.
I would say quite historical.:)
"And may the Truth win out"
Who can argue with that.
Take care.
I apologise! I didn’t catch the word “Causus” in the beginning of the title. Please forgive. No more posts from me on this thread. Catholic friends have at it, and I will just read.
Well John, while I disagree with the content of your post, this shouldn’t be a caucus thread because it deals with reflections on another group other than Catholics. You should be able to present a defense of the views.
You teach Church History?
One couldn’t tell by these revisionsit gems you’ve tossed about:
1) “What we do discover is that there is a lot of revisionist history from the Roman Church, especially from the time of Augustine. Everything must be made to appear to have an origin in what was created after Nicea (325 AD)”
Huh? What was created after 325? Such as? Show examples of revisionism. Please document them. Can you? Or will this be an empty assertion?
2) “What is really amazing is how that the “Catholics” admire the “Protestants” (of course, there are millions of Christians who have never been either one) for their attention to Bible reading and study, when several of their own councils had put a ban on personal Bible reading.”
Really? No ecumenical council ever banned personal reading of the Bible. Do you mean regional councils fighting heretics like the Lollards and Albigensians? Were those bans on personal reading of the Bible or on specific translations? Please document. Can you?
Mark to read later.
If that's the case,(maybe I missed something somewhere), then let the rules be applied.
Gonzo
bump for later
This article is not at all up to your usual standards, G. In all honesty, its a pretty obvious piece of simplistic revisionism. I often wonder why some Romans, like the author of this piece, feel compelled to write this sort of spin when the real history of The Church will do even more for their position save when it comes to their notions of Petrine Supremacy.
I don't see what is wrong with it, K, you know we Catholics interpret the Church Fathers to have believed in the Petrine Primacy, that doesn't necessitate "simplistic revisionism".
You obviously took a lot of time to write this and I commend you for your effort. My biggest problem with your work is the sarcastic tone in which you present it. It does not appear to me that you are trying to win anyone to the Lord so much as trying to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Are you trying to win me to the Lord or to your point of view?
Pride is a killer.
Your title “Catholics have more fun than Protestants” brings back memories of many offenses I received as a young boy from young Catholic grade school students.
I had hardly knew any Romans Catholics until they finished the 6th grade and started to attend the public schools.
They could out curse, especially using the G.d. and J.C. words, more vocally and louder that I had ever heard. Their parents had no problem in owning the local “beer Joints” and the liquor stores; and or the special “night clubs.”
But they never shared or mentioned God, nor our Savior in a respected manner.
This continued on through high school, college and in
military service! They seemed to carry a life message; “You can live in sin, enjoy the pleasure of sin, then just confess it. Then go out and do it again!
This seemed to me their way of having more fun!
“...you know we Catholics interpret the Church Fathers to have believed in the Petrine Primacy....”
Orthodoxy does not doubt for a minute the fact of Petrine Primacy, G. What we reject is Petrine Supremacy. Its telling that you focused on the role of the Pope. It seems that at base, that’s the real issue for Rome. All other theology pales to insignificance in Rome’s mania that all Christians submit to the Pope of Rome and accept as dogma his claims of “immediate universal jurisdiction.”
In fact, G, saying, for example, that “confirmation” in the early church was often conferred on the same day as baptism, ignores the fact that to this day all of Orthodoxy and virtually all of the Eastern particular Churches in communion with the bishop of Rome do the exact same thing and also give the newly baptized communion too...even to little babies. The article is shot through with this sort of revisionism.
I will grant you that a faithful and accurate history of The Church, one whose purpose is other than the promotion of a late 19th century innovation about the Pope, will call into question Papal Supremacy, but otherwise it will demonstrate the essential faithfulness of the Church of Rome to the teachings and dogmas of the early Church and conversely, the falling away of Protestantism (only for the most part since in Anglicanism and Lutheranism there are truly “catholic” teachings and beliefs and practices) from those teachings. Hundreds of millions of Orthodox Christians and likely Protestants too hear this constant Papal Supremacy spin and simply tune Rome right out.
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How do you know that GonzoII and the author Claire Furia Smith are the same person?
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