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To: caseinpoint
There is a difference between salvation and exaltation.

What exactly do you mean by "exaltation"?

Jesus said the following:

For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 14:11 KJV)

Joseph Smith was quoted as saying the following:

"A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408-409).

Now based on that statement is Joseph Smith worthy of exaltation or abasement?

By exaltation do you mean that you will someday be found worthy to become a god, like God the Father? Is it your desire to become a god and rule as God over your own planet and to bear spirit children in a world such as this? Is that what you mean by exaltation?

285 posted on 01/06/2009 8:36:50 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

God calls us His children, not his pets. Children carry the same eternal “genetic makeup” as their fathers with the same potentials. All through His earthly ministry the Savior called upon Him followers to strive to become like Him. God doesn’t put us through the tests of mortal life just to assign us to sing in the heaven choir for the rest of eternity. He has us experience mortal life in order to learn and grow in knowledge and experience. For what? To qualify us for more responsibility in the hereafter as part of his creations. A prince may grow to become a king but he never supplants his father unless his father dies, and God does not die. Therefore, any responsibility or stewardship assigned to those faithful to the Lord in this life will always be under the aegis of the Lord who is eternal and unending. Mormons believe that the Lord is engaged in eternal creation and dominion and that He will share some of the responsibilities with us if we prove faithful. That doesn’t mean we believe we will ever be the same as God or in competition with Him, just that we will share in eternal creation and love for our creations. That makes us, in some definitions, gods (little g). (Psalms 82:1.

You criticize Joseph Smith for being what sounds like boasting. I think he was stating that his followers were of a better quality than were the disciples of Christ who deserted Him when the going got tough. Joseph Smith was a human being, as human as any of us. He was not a redeemer or savior, he was just a kid who wanted to know what church to join and ended up with an answer he never in his life expected. He acted on it and the rest is, as they say, history. There is a lot of history on Joseph Smith and not all of it is accurate. He never pretended to be perfect and he made his share of mistakes in his lifetime but he was, nevertheless, an instrument of God during his short life, for that reason alone he deserves exaltation. There has only been one perfect being upon this planet and everyone else has provided plenty of fodder for criticism, or would have had the state of communication been as it is now and had the other church founders been so recently born.

You have been respectful in much of what you have written but now I think you are grasping at straws to debase my church. I cannot refute every derogatory thing written about my church and Joseph Smith. No one can refute everything bad about anyone’s church. If you are sincerely interested in knowing the church, then just get a copy of the Book of Mormon and read it start to finish in the privacy of your own home and decide just what in there is so “satanic” that minions fight against it. If you then have further questions, there are plenty of sites to find the answers far better than I can phrase them. If you have already made up your mind, then we are both wasting our time.

I have appreciated our conversation but I don’t think it is going anywhere. Neither of us appears ready to change our minds so I think we should just agree to disagree and let the chips fall where they may. If you wish, you can come laugh at me in hell if it proves you are right.


286 posted on 01/06/2009 9:15:31 PM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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