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To: count-your-change; LeonardFMason
"Mary is treated with respect in Scripture, not worshiped or prayed to, or spoken of as interceding and certainly not treated as “Mother of God”.

First, as regards Mary being "worshiped" I will repeat what I said on post #9: If any Catholics are worshiping the Virgin Mary, they've got a problem. We do highly honor her though.

Secondly, as regards Mary being "prayed to", with the word "pray" being understood in the context of "requesting" or "interceding", the Scriptures say in James 5:16 "For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much." I don't think anyone would doubt that the Blessed Virgin Mary was just.

Thirdly, as regards Mary "interceding," we do see in Scripture that she does, in John 2:3,4; "And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine. And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come. His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye." NB the confidence she has that her "prayer" or "request" will be heeded, she doesn't even wait for an answer from our Lord but confidently tells the waiters "Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye." From this verse we Catholics get our confidence in her intercession.

Finally, as regards the Virgin Mary being referred to as the "Mother of God", the Scriptures tell us indeed she is, in Luke Ch. 1 Elizabeth under the influence of the Holy Spirit proclaims it; Lk 1: 41-43 "And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:  And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

23 posted on 12/31/2008 12:50:32 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: GonzoII

“....the Scriptures say in James 5:16 “For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.” I don’t think anyone would doubt that the Blessed Virgin Mary was just.”

James is advising Christians to pray to God here for other Christians, nothing about Mary praying or being prayed to.

“Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.” From this verse we Catholics get our confidence in her intercession.”

At John 14:6 Jesus said no one came to the Father except through him, and in vs. 13 that whatever we request in his name he will do it. No Mary involved. So it is Jesus that makes intercession not Mary.

“filled with the Holy Ghost” and “And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

Luke 1:67 says Zechariah was “filled with the Holy Ghost” also. “Mother of my Lord” is not “Mother of God” even as the term “Lord” is applied to both God and Jesus. And many others.

“First, as regards Mary being “worshiped” I will repeat what I said on post #9: If any Catholics are worshiping the Virgin Mary, they’ve got a problem. We do highly honor her though.”

When does “highly honor” become “worship”? Mary is described by Catholics as being in “heaven where she is queen, reigning over heaven and earth.”
Refering to Gen. 3, “There mention is made of the “Second Eve”, through whom will be effected the redeemed restoration of all mankind”
“ toward the close of the Marian Year (1954), on Dec. 8, the pope declared the doctrine of the Universal Queenship of Mary....”. and “..she is Co-Redemptrix....”
(from The Catholic Encyclopedia 1987 ed. Robert C. Broderick, Editor)

Matt. 20:28 says that Jesus gave his soul as a ransom or redemption for many, Mary not involved as “Co-Redemptrix”.

But the Bible does mention “the queen of heaven” in Jeremiah 7:18 as a false goddess the apostate Israeltes were sacrificing to and worshipping.


28 posted on 12/31/2008 4:11:48 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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