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To: Lee N. Field

Matthew 24:29-31 emphasizes a gathering of the elect, of both Old and New Covenant saints rising from their graves, and New Covenant saints (Christians) faithfully awaiting the return of the Lord. This passage indicates the Rapture will take place during tribulation, following the shaking of heavenly powers and sign of Son of Man in heaven.

Matthew 24:29-31, KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Paul’s stated in 2 Thes. 2:3-4 that the second coming of the Messiah will not occur until a falling away occurs first, followed by the coming of the son of perdition (anti-christ), and then the defiling of the Temple of God in Jerusalem. This passage contradicts the Pre-Tribulational doctrinal viewpoint.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-9

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Read a complete study on the Rapture at http://www.messianic-literary.com/rapture.htm


71 posted on 12/01/2008 7:30:54 PM PST by mbeeber (Messianic Literary Corner Director (http://www.messianic-literary.com/))
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To: mbeeber; Lee N. Field
Matthew 24:29-31 emphasizes a gathering of the elect, of both Old and New Covenant saints rising from their graves, and New Covenant saints (Christians) faithfully awaiting the return of the Lord. This passage indicates the Rapture will take place during tribulation, following the shaking of heavenly powers and sign of Son of Man in heaven.

Actually, there is nothing specific in that passage about saints rising from the grave or the so-called rapture. That is an inference based on a faulty interpretation of the text.

And while the passage is about the "great tribulation", it's clear from the context that the event was a 1st century occurrence. Some folks get tripped up on the language of the sun being darkened, etc, but a careful examination of the Old Testament prophets will reveal identical or similar language used to describe the temporal judgment against nations.

1 The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw. ... 9 Behold, the day of the Lord comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine. (Isaiah 13)
Jesus' disciples, those Jews of that day quite familiar with the language of the prophets, understood the words of Jesus and did indeed flee from Jerusalem when they saw the approaching Roman armies. They saw the "abomination of desolation" and "fled to the mountains".
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Matt. 24)

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, (Luke 21)

Same event, similar language, different audience. In this case, it describes the temporal judgment that was about to fall upon ancient Israel, "this generation", in the transition from old covenant to new.
36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation . 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' " (Matt. 23)

72 posted on 12/01/2008 7:53:18 PM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: mbeeber
Matthew 24:29-31 emphasizes a gathering of the elect, of both Old and New Covenant saints rising from their graves, and New Covenant saints (Christians) faithfully awaiting the return of the Lord. This passage indicates the Rapture will take place during tribulation, following the shaking of heavenly powers and sign of Son of Man in heaven.

Commenting on the timing of the tribulation tells me you missed the point of what I was trying to say. My point in this:

Would he then have a claim on the land "from the river to the sea". And still eligible to get raptured out in the nick of tribulation? Best 'o both worlds.

is a criticism of dispensationalism's division of the people of God into different groups with different plans and different benefits.

By the way, who-all have you read, of non-dispensational scholars?

91 posted on 12/02/2008 5:29:22 AM PST by Lee N. Field (Dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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