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To: NYer
Non-Catholic christian churches also follow tradition. During the Reformation, the Protestants accepted the New Testament as defined by the Catholic Church in the late 4th century but excluded 7 OT books.

They certainly did NOT...Marty Luther based his German translation of the Scriptures on an entirely different set of manuscripts than those used by your church...

the Bible says that the Church, not the Scriptures, is the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15) and the final arbiter on questions of the Christian faith (Matt. 18:17).

There you go with your private interpretation that God warns about...The 'church is not the pillar and ground of the truth...God is...

Your church is permeated with unbelievers as all churches are...God is not foolish enough to trust anyone in your church or mine, with His infallible Truth...The Apostle Paul warned about your bunch in the Scriptures...

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

The Scriptures that you so demean are the spoken words of God...God SPOKE the creation into existance...Your main weapon against the Devil are the spoken/written words of God...The writing that tells us that your religion is NOT the religion of God is God's spoken/written words in the Scripture...It's no wonder you put your authority above the Scripture, God's spoken/written words...

It is through the teaching authority and Apostolic Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15; 3:6; 1 Cor. 11:2) of this Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit (John 14:16,26; 16:13), that we know of the divine inspiration of the Scriptures, and the manifold wisdom of God.

What a bunch of phony baloney

Here's one of the verses you cite as proof of that statement...

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jesus never said anything to any of your man appointed popes...They weren't there...

The Holy Sjpirit was to provide perfect memory to the Apostles so when they authored the Scriptures, they were writing exactly what Jesus had said...There is nothing in that verse or the others you cite that refers to your religion...

21 posted on 11/27/2008 6:37:32 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
The Apostles communicated the Truth orally, without error, long before they wrote any of it down, and the vast majority of Christians do believe that God continues to preserve oral teaching without error as He did the Scriptures ...

But my understanding is that Modern Protestants do not believe God did this ... (does He does not have the power, or for some reason He chooses not to?)

I think it's interesting that you reference the "spoken word of God," but you also seem to think that men have the power corrupt it.
30 posted on 11/27/2008 11:29:38 AM PST by Lilllabettt
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To: Iscool
.Marty Luther based his German translation of the Scriptures on an entirely different set of manuscripts than those used by your church...

I rest my case. Martin Luther stated in his "Commentary On St. John,":  "We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we have received It from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of It at all." He, a man without any authority, eliminated 7 books from the texts inspired by the Holy Spirit. That is a man made tradition. All non-Catholic Christian denominations owe the existence of the Bible to the Catholic Church alone.  Why did God choose the Catholic Church to preserve Scripture if It is not His Church?

Your church is permeated with unbelievers as all churches are..

Unbelievers? You mean individuals exercising their God-given gift of free will? The one has nothing to do with the other. The Church, founded by Jesus Christ, has never altered its teachings. There will always be individuals who commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both "weeds and wheat" (Matthew 13:30).

The Scriptures that you so demean are the spoken words of God..

Huh? We gave you the Scriptures!

The writing that tells us that your religion is NOT the religion of God is God's spoken/written words in the Scripture...It's no wonder you put your authority above the Scripture, God's spoken/written words...

Well that's a good laugh. The Catholic Church compiled the Scriptures that you venerate over God Himself. Christ stated that the Church, not Scripture should be the final authority:  "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17 )  Christ did not state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction.  He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity.  In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, not Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)

Jesus never said anything to any of your man appointed popes...They weren't there...

Peter, John, Mark and Matthew were all there. Peter was the first pope. For it was St. Peter alone that was the "rock" upon which Christ established His Church (Matthew 16:18).  And it was St. Peter alone that was given the task of "feeding" Christ's sheep (John 21:15-17 ).  Scripture clearly points out St. Peter as Christ's representative on earth.  Christ did not ask the other Eleven to feed and tend His sheep.  If you read The Acts Of The Apostles, it is clear that St. Peter leads the Apostles.  Therefore, since the Apostles are to be replaced as they die (Acts 1:20-26), then it follows that whoever succeed(s) St. Peter is leader of the Church.  There is only to be one shepherd of the Church (John 10:16).  For the Apostles did not argue amongst themselves whether there was a "greatest" at all, but who amongst them was the greatest (Mark 9:34; Luke 9:46).

The Holy Sjpirit was to provide perfect memory to the Apostles so when they authored the Scriptures, they were writing exactly what Jesus had said...There is nothing in that verse or the others you cite that refers to your religion..

Oh dear friend, you seem to have a very poor understanding of scripture. Did Jesus Christ write down any part of the New Testament with His own hand?  No, He did not.  If the Bible was to be the sole authority of the Church, shouldn't the Founder have written down His Own teachings?  Shouldn't He have at least stated something similar to the following:  "the written works of My disciples will be the authority upon which My Church is based?"

Didn't Jesus Christ with His own mouth instruct His disciples to "write down" His teachings?  No.  With the possible exception of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) by St. John the Apostle, Jesus Christ gives no such instructions to any of His disciples or Apostles.  In fact, only the Apostles Sts. Peter, John, James, Jude and Matthew were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write Scripture.  Why were the other seven not inspired of the Holy Spirit to "write" if the "written" Word of God is the ONLY authority to be followed in the Christian religion?

Does the Bible state It is the sole or final authority of Christianity?  No.  Neither this statement nor anything even close to it appears anywhere in the New Testament.  In fact, Christ said that the Church is to resolve disputes among Christians, not Scripture (Matthew 18:17).

Is the Bible to be taken literally - "word for word?"  No.  The Bible doesn't state anywhere that It should be taken literally.  The Bible was written by different authors with different literary styles at different times in history and in different languages.  Therefore, the writings should be interpreted with these circumstances in mind.  The Bible is a religious book, not a scientific or a history "textbook."

39 posted on 11/27/2008 3:15:53 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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