Eucharist vs. the Word (which is more important in the Catholic Church)

ZNA ^ | November 11, 2008 | Father Edward McNamara

[NYer]

ROME, NOV. 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Answered by Legionary of Christ Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.

Q: Could you succinctly state the relationship between the importance of the Eucharist versus the Word of God in the liturgy of the Mass? I was on a Eucharistic retreat with a group of Catholics, when the leader of our group said that we as Catholics believe that the Word of God is as important as the Eucharist. I have always been taught that the Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith, but after she said this I did some research into adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and the Word of God, and it seemed that there was more than a little validity to her statement since the "Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us" ... and God speaks to us though his inspired Word, etc. Please clarify this. -- N.C., Cleveland, Ohio

A: I would like to begin this answer by recalling a conversation I had during my seminary years with an elderly Catholic layman while on vacation in upstate New York. This wise gentleman, of Lithuanian descent, rented canoes in the Adirondacks and often dealt with evangelical Christians who tried to win him over by saying they had the Good Book. He replied that as a Catholic he not only had the Book but moreover frequently met the Author.

Although one might discuss the theological precision of the anecdote, it does reflect a fundamental truth with respect to the different forms in which Christ is present to us. God certainly speaks to us through his inspired Word, and the Church teaches that he is present when the Scriptures are read. This presence, however, as Pope Paul VI teaches in his encyclical "Mysterium Fidei" is a real but transitory presence enduring while the liturgical reading lasts. It is, therefore, not of the same class as the substantial real presence found in the Eucharist.

From another angle we can also consider how Scripture is fulfilled in Eucharistic worship.

"The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us" this is the foundation of our faith. However, the same Word who took flesh in Mary's womb, who died, rose and ascended, is the same one who said, "This is my body … this is my blood," and is thus present body, soul and divinity under the species of bread and wine. In every Eucharistic celebration the entire mystery of Christ from the incarnation to the ascension is truly made present anew, albeit under the veil of sign and symbol.

From this perspective the Eucharist is thus "more important" than Scripture because Scripture's ultimate goal is to lead us to union with Christ through full participation in the Mass. The Mass is a sharing in the worship which the Incarnate Word offers to the Father in the Holy Spirit.

Yet, from a different perspective and precisely in the context of the Mass, the question as to the relative importance of Scripture vis-[-vis the Eucharist is relatively meaningless.

In every Mass we are like the disciples going to Emmaus, except we already know that Christ is present among us. Like them, our hearts should burn as we listen to Moses, the prophets and the New Covenant as they speak about Christ. At the same time we are aware that in the end we will recognize him only in the breaking of bread.

Therefore it is not a question of the superiority of one over the other but of an inseparable interrelationship and ordering of one toward the other. Precisely because Scripture is ordered toward Eucharistic worship, the celebration's external form necessarily follows the road to Emmaus. All the historical evidence available shows us that the celebration of the Word and the Eucharist have always formed a single act of worship. Likewise, Scripture is so intimately intertwined within the fabric of every single prayer that we can say that without Scripture there could be no Catholic liturgy.

Conversely, and from a historical perspective it is also partially true that without liturgy there would be no Scripture, for one of the major criteria for determining which books eventually made it into the biblical canon was whether the book was read in the liturgical assembly.

Therefore the contraposition of Word and Eucharist does not correspond to an authentically Catholic vision of their intimate relationship.

It is true that, historically, Catholics have not been assiduous Bible readers. During the greatest part of the Church's existence books were a luxury few could read and fewer could afford. The lack of direct Bible reading did not mean that there was total biblical illiteracy. Most Christians were imbued with biblical salvation history through church decorations in painting, sculpture and stained glass. The huge reredos enshrining the high altars of many cathedrals harmoniously wove in the stories of Genesis, kings, prophets, Jesus' ancestry and the principal events of the New Testament, while centering everything on the sacrifice of the altar. In this way they provided a visible scriptural background to Catholic worship.

In today's changed circumstances the Church actively encourages all Catholics to possess, read and meditate on the Good Book, while not forgetting to make frequent visits to the Author.

* * *

Follow-up: Missing or Faulty Forms of Absolution

In the wake of our Oct. 28 discussion of a priest not using a valid form of absolution, some readers suggested that I should have also dealt with the case where absolution is denied due to some defect or impediment on the part of the penitent.

Actually, in my earlier reply I deliberately omitted this very complex subject as it would have taken me away from the immediate question. I preferred to limit myself to the question at hand because it was clearly a case of lack of proper sacramental form by the priest and did not concern his being obliged to deny absolution.

It is, however, important to remember that there are times when a priest must necessarily deny absolution. This would be the case, for example, if it is clear that the penitent lacks contrition or is subject to excommunication or some similar censure. In such cases, the priest must, in conscience, inform the penitent why he is unable to grant absolution, and then tell the penitent what he or she needs to do to be absolved.

It would be a grave injustice toward God, the Church and the penitent himself to lead him to believe he has received absolution when in fact it could not be granted. If the priest also simulates the form of absolution while not actually giving it, then he commits a grave fault.

A reader from Singapore asked what the minimal formula for absolution was. St. Thomas Aquinas and the majority of classical theology manuals held that the nucleus of the formula was the expression "I absolve you." A few also sustained that the words "from your sins" were also necessary. All agreed that the Trinitarian invocation and the other prayers were not required for validity but were necessary for the sacrament's licit celebration in non-emergency situations.

Something similar could be said for elderly priests who never learned the new formula of absolution. Any absolution formula that was once officially approved would certainly be valid. They would probably also be licit if never formally abrogated.

* * *

[Iscool]

Interesting link here, where in Scripture is ? I’m not saying there isn’t an answer but it might take some work to find a reference.

It's not interesting at all...Just some clown making stuff up cuz he knows you guys will eat it up...

Matthew 23:2, “The Scribes and the Pharisees have sat on the chair of Moses.”

He first perverts the word of God and then he doesn't know enough bible to find the answers...

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

The Pharisees didn't sit in Moses' chair...Moses didn't have a chair...Moses had a seat...Moses had many seats, depending on which rock he sat on...So the seat was not a chair...It was a POSITION...

Exo 18:13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.
Exo 18:14 And when Moses' father-in-law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?

Moses SAT as the judge of his people...THAT is Moses' seat, and not his CHAIR...

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

This stuff sound familiar??? These are the same Pharisees who, a couple hundred years later claimed they have finally figured out what is and isn't scripture...And that, just so you'll know your history...

[Cvengr]

Jesus created His Church, made Peter the steward and the Holy Spirit commissioned it at Pentecost. I do not think that Jesus created a Church in order to condemn it.

Did Christ or the Holy Spirit create the Church? If God planned for the Church as He did the Sanhedrin, does Christ really treat their tradition as He treated theirs?

[Cvengr]

In Romans and especially Romans Chapter 10, Paul is writing of the mechanics of righteousness and how we are saved by faith as manifest in the heart of the believer, not by the Law, nor by the traditions of the nation or grouping of believers. Israel happens to be the object to exercise that righteousness if she were to observe how the law of Moses was intended to be received by God in the heart of the believer.

Considering the early Church was Jewish, the context is most pertinent and not removed in post 46.

[Cvengr]

Read John 14:18-21 17:22-23 Col 1:25-29, Rev 3:20, Ex 25:21-22, 40:34-35, PS 99:1-9, Isa 37:16, Lev 26:11-13

In John, focus on the Prepositional logic. It is very easy to incorrectly read our own past misconceptions into Scripture if those prepositions are glanced over. He reveals volumes about the relationships between the persons of the Godhead in these verses.

[RGPII]

This stuff sound familiar??? These are the same Pharisees who, a couple hundred years later claimed they have finally figured out what is and isn't scripture...And that, just so you'll know your history..

I ask no one to do the grunt-work and the Moses verse jumped out at me as one that probably was answerable, however we again see only one of a dozen or so quotes on that page addressed. But you managed to make a meal of it as much as possible for your own position.

I believe these may be valid points still.

Jude 1:9, "Yet when Michael the Archangel was fiercely disputing with the devil about the body of Moses..."

Where can this 'dispute' be found in Holy Scripture?

C. I know where this can be found, in the Apocryphal "Assumption of Moses." (NJB-New Jerusalem Bible): sorry but the author's point holds true. Everything clearly is not in the Lutheran Bible I will say, thus showing Tradition's importance.

2Timothy 3:8, "Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these men also resist the truth..."

Who are Jannes and Jambres? Where is the reference? If you know, by what means did you find it?

He doesn't look like much of a clown here. The closest we get is Exodus 7:11 "Then Pharaoh in his turn called for the sages and sorcerers, and by their spells the magicians of Egypt did the same." but this does not mention Jannes and Jambres by name. This must have been told in oral tradition and/or other books not found in the Lutheran Old Testament.

[RGPII]

Regarding Matthew 23:2

FACT: Jesus Himself lived by these oral traditions.

FACT: Not only did the Lord live by them, but He is also recorded defending one in Matthew 23.

Matthew 23: 1-3: "Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying, ‘The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all the things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example.’ "

FACT: The "chair of Moses" was Moses' teaching authority, according to ancient Jewish oral tradition.

For example, it is recorded in the Midrash Rabbah: "They made for him (Moses) a chair like that of the advocates, in which one sits and yet seems to be standing." (Exodus Rabbah 43:4)

Also, the Pesikta siRav Kahana 1:7 mentions the "chair of Moses," and the editors of the English edition comment:

"The particular place in the synagogue where the leaders used to sit was known metaphorically as the ‘chair of Moses’ or as the ‘Throne of the Torah,’ symbolizing the succession of teachers of Torah (from Moses) down through the ages."

FACT: While the "chair of Moses" is an element of ancient Jewish tradition -- apparently dating from the time of Moses himself -- it is recorded nowhere in the Old Testament Scriptures. Rather, it is strictly an oral Tradition.

FACT: Yet, while not being recorded in the Old Testament, Jesus Himself -- Who is (let us not forget) the Word of God -- bears testimony to its legitimacy.

Therefore, it must be admitted that the Word of God as we have it in the Old Testament is not merely a Scriptural record, but rather comes to us (at least in this one case) through both Scripture as well as a living oral Tradition. The idea that the Scribes and Pharisees (i.e., "the fathers of Israel") were the direct successors of Moses’ authority is stated nowhere in Old Testament Scripture; yet He Who is the Word of God tells us this based on oral Tradition.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a21.htm

So the Chair of Moses is in fact Jewish Tradition and is found in writings of the Jewish Faith!

[MarkBsnr]

***Now that’s what I’m sayin’...Your church tells you this stuff but the scriptures themselves tell us differently...

Right there in the verse that’s being discussed:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Even before any scripture was written, Peter recognized that Paul was ‘speaking’ scripture and then was writing scripture...Right from the getgo...***

Umm, Peter was saying that he thought that Paul’s writings were on the same level as that of the OT. There was no New - the Gospels, starting with Mark, weren’t even written until after Peter and Paul were martyred. Revelation was somewhere in the 90s, if I recall properly. The last Gospels were in the same time frame.

***Why didn’t your group know that Paul’s writing was scripture??? They didn’t believe Peter??? What about your apostolic succession???

Peter knew exactly what was scripture and who was writing it...The Apostle John knew what was scripture and what wasn’t...And by the end of their ministries, you can bet thousands upon thousands of Christians knew what scripture was and wasn’t...They didn’t have to wait for hundreds of years for your bunch to tell them what scripture was...***

Show me where Peter considered his own writings Scripture, or that of John, Mark, Luke, or Matthew. Show me where Revelation was considered Scripture by Peter.

***You guys ignore and deny the part of church history where your church confiscated and burned as much of these early manuscripts as they could get their hands on...Much of the time murdering those who refused to give them up...And then to claim your church created the scripture...HOGWASH...***

Everything in the NT is written by what are now called Catholics. I presume, by your posts, that you consult extra-Biblical documents such as the Gospel of Judas.

[MarkBsnr]

***Did Christ or the Holy Spirit create the Church?***

Matt 16:

13
8 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi 9 he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, 10 others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16
11 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus created the Church.

Acts 2:

1
1 When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together.
2
And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind, 2 and it filled the entire house in which they were.
3
Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire, 3 which parted and came to rest on each one of them.
4
And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, 4 as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.
5
Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem.
6
At this sound, they gathered in a large crowd, but they were confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
7
They were astounded, and in amazement they asked, “Are not all these people who are speaking Galileans?
8
Then how does each of us hear them in his own native language?
9
We are Parthians, Medes, and Elamites, inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10
Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya near Cyrene, as well as travelers from Rome,
11
both Jews and converts to Judaism, Cretans and Arabs, yet we hear them speaking in our own tongues of the mighty acts of God.”
12
They were all astounded and bewildered, and said to one another, “What does this mean?”
13
But others said, scoffing, “They have had too much new wine.”
14
5 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice, and proclaimed to them, “You who are Jews, indeed all of you staying in Jerusalem. Let this be known to you, and listen to my words.
15
These people are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only nine o’clock in the morning.
16
No, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:
17
‘It will come to pass in the last days,’ God says, ‘that I will pour out a portion of my spirit upon all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams.
18
Indeed, upon my servants and my handmaids I will pour out a portion of my spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy.
19
And I will work wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below: blood, fire, and a cloud of smoke.
20
The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and splendid day of the Lord,
21
and it shall be that everyone shall be saved who calls on the name of the Lord.’
22
You who are Israelites, hear these words. Jesus the Nazorean was a man commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst, as you yourselves know.
23
This man, delivered up by the set plan and foreknowledge of God, you killed, using lawless men to crucify him.
24
But God raised him up, releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.
25
For David says of him: ‘I saw the Lord ever before me, with him at my right hand I shall not be disturbed.
26
Therefore my heart has been glad and my tongue has exulted; my flesh, too, will dwell in hope,
27
because you will not abandon my soul to the netherworld, nor will you suffer your holy one to see corruption.
28
You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.’
29
My brothers, one can confidently say to you about the patriarch David that he died and was buried, and his tomb is in our midst to this day.
30
But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne,
31
he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that neither was he abandoned to the netherworld nor did his flesh see corruption.
32
God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses.
33
Exalted at the right hand of God, 6 he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.
34
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand
35
until I make your enemies your footstool.”’
36
Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?”
38
Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
39
For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”
40
He testified with many other arguments, and was exhorting them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.
42
8 They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.
43
Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44
All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45
they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one’s need.
46
Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart,
47
praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.

The Holy Spirit put the Church into motion.

[Uri’el-2012]

Eucharist and the Word

The Word of G-d is Yah'shua.

The metaphor of "eat my body" means
ingest (read) the Word of G-d.

The Eucharist is an ersatz Passover Seder.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[RGPII]

"Arch made of the local basalt rock. An interior wall is on the inside. The square openings are interior windows. Interior arches inside a residence or a building in Korazin. Heavy basalt stones would lay across the top for the roof. Inside the synagogue in Korazin These steps lead to the synagogue. The gable from the front of the roof is sitting on the top of the stairs. Drawing of the synagogue taken from text of Jerusalem University College. Decorative pilaster on the outside front of the synagogue The basalt chair in the synagogue known as "the seat of Moses". Notice the Greek inscription on the front of the chair. See Matthew 23:2. Close up of the Greek inscription on the seat of Moses in the synagogue in Korazin Drawing of "the seat of Moses" with translation of Greek inscription. Taken from workbook from Jerusalem University "- http://www.generationword.com/Israel/korazin.html

In saying that the "Seat of Moses" is a sort of metaphor for the "authority of Moses" as the Holman Christian Standard Bible states "Matthew 23:2 a special chair for teaching in synagogues, or a metaphorical phrase for teaching with Moses' authority" is close to entering an extra-Biblical interpretation to the verse. This is saying one could understand this in this manner. Asserting this also might negate that possibly this is a real seat or chair.

Additionally, it appears there can be some question about the original interpretation of the Greek. This material is a bit too much in depth but is discussed: http://lingamish.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/malformed-equivalence-in-matthew-232/

[Iscool]

The idea that the Scribes and Pharisees (i.e., "the fathers of Israel") were the direct successors of Moses’ authority is stated nowhere in Old Testament Scripture; yet He Who is the Word of God tells us this based on oral Tradition.

I don't think the implication was that the Scribes and Pharisees were the legitimate successors of Moses...They took over this position on their own...And Jesus makes the warning that when they teach what Moses taught, do that...But DO NOT do what those Pharisees do...And then Jesus goes on in the next verses telling what the Parisees were up to...

But you certainly don't have to know any Jewish history to find this out...It's all in the scripture...

[Petronski]

Bzzzt. You're wrong again. While your own personal interpretation of Scripture is creative, it is of no use to me, as it is admittedly bereft of logic, reason and common sense.

I shall remain wary of the error of the wicked by rejecting your misinterpretations and standing firm with the Church founded by Christ.

[Petronski]

I have read on FR threads where Catholics believe that only the Magisterium and priesthood are filled with the Holy Spirit...

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that, and I do not believe your claims that it happened.

[Petronski]

And if a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, which is God, which is a 'real' filling, 24/7, why the emphasis on getting the 'real' presence of Jesus thru the Eucharist if you believe you are already filled with God???

The short answer is because Christ commands it.

The long answer is that the Holy Spirit is a real filling, only Holy Eucharist is the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.

[Petronski]

They got it from your church...

God's own Church, founded by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit against error to this day.

[Iscool]

You're wrong again. While your own personal interpretation of Scripture is creative, it is of no use to me, as it is admittedly bereft of logic, reason and common sense.

God gave people logic and common sense so they would figure out it's best to eat soup with a spoon, and not a steak knife...

[Petronski]

And while it took a few hundred years for your bunch to accept it...

What a load of baloney. Peter was the first Pope of the Catholic Church.

Peter knew exactly what was scripture and who was writing it...The Apostle John knew what was scripture and what wasn't...And by the end of their ministries, you can bet thousands upon thousands of Christians knew what scripture was and wasn't...They didn't have to wait for hundreds of years for your bunch to tell them what scripture was...

Peter, John, Paul...You're describing the fathers of the Catholic Church. By DEFINITION the Catholic Church accepted what Scripture is...when it comes to the New Testament, Catholics WROTE it.

[Petronski]

The Pharisees didn't sit in Moses' chair...Moses didn't have a chair...Moses had a seat...Moses had many seats, depending on which rock he sat on...So the seat was not a chair...It was a POSITION...

Abandon logic and common sense?

Done and done, I'd say.

[MarkBsnr]

***You’re wrong again. While your own personal interpretation of Scripture is creative, it is of no use to me, as it is admittedly bereft of logic, reason and common sense.

God gave people logic and common sense so they would figure out it’s best to eat soup with a spoon, and not a steak knife...***

So you admit that your interpretation is not Scriptural, nor is it of the Church. How is the Church of one going?

[MarkBsnr]

***The metaphor of “eat my body” means
ingest (read) the Word of G-d.

The Eucharist is an ersatz Passover Seder. ***

Now ‘eat’ means ‘read’, does it?

Let us go back to the Greeks for a true translation. Scripture says that Jesus implemented a new process that we call Eucharist that took from the Jewish roots and upgraded it to include the Body and Blood of Christ.