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Immunity, Denied (Catholic Caucus)
WITL ^ | November 25, 2008 | Rocco Palmo

Posted on 11/26/2008 10:41:30 AM PST by NYer

On Monday, in what's being described as a "landmark" ruling, a Federal appeals court green-lighted a sex-abuse suit naming the Holy See among its plaintiffs:

[The] ruling, issued by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, marks the first time a court at so high a level has recognized that the Vatican could be liable for the negligence in sexual-abuse cases brought in the U.S.

The ruling is seen as a breakthrough by those allegedly abused by priests. Investigators and grand juries have found several instances where the church failed to report alleged abusers and covered up alleged misdeeds to protect them.

Jeffrey S. Lena, the attorney for the Holy See, said he was not "presently inclined" to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to review the decision.

It remains to be seen whether the Vatican, which is a sovereign state recognized by the U.S. government, will make further arguments that it is immune from U.S. civil proceeding.

Catholic dioceses in the U.S. have paid out at least $1.5 billion to alleged abuse victims, most of this since the scandal broke open nationwide in 2002.

The appeals court found that the church government may be held liable for actions taken in the U.S. based on the Vatican's policies or directives.

"What the court has allowed us to do is proceed against the Vatican for the conduct of the U.S. bishops because of the bishops' failure to ... report child abuse," said William F. McMurry, the attorney for three men who claim they were abused as children by priests in the Louisville, Ky., archdiocese. He is seeking class-action status in the district-court case.

The ruling marks the first time that a federal appeals court recognized that the Vatican could be liable under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, a 1976 law that governs when a foreign nation or its agents can be sued, said Marci Hamilton, a constitutional-law scholar who is part of the legal team in the Louisville case.

"If someone can crack that barrier of immunity, it opens the door to other claims against the Catholic church," says Jonathan Levy, a Washington, D.C., attorney who represents concentration-camp survivors in a suit against numerous parties including the Vatican bank. The Vatican, in that case, prevailed in its claim of sovereign immunity.

Mr. Lena, the lawyer for the Holy See in the Louisville case, said Monday's ruling is a small step and one that is far from establishing whether Vatican policy contributed to thousands of incidents of abuse that have been alleged over several decades. "We're miles away from liability," he said. The ruling is "very incremental."
PHOTO: Reuters

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TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; vatican
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1 posted on 11/26/2008 10:41:30 AM PST by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 11/26/2008 10:42:53 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer

I think we can see where this is heading.


3 posted on 11/26/2008 10:47:55 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

Sorry, dummy “Judge”. The Pope has SOVERIGN IMMUNITY! DUHHHH!


5 posted on 11/26/2008 10:51:53 AM PST by 2harddrive (...House a TOTAL Loss.....)
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To: NYer

This is analogous to holding the POTUS responsible for the illegal acts of low level federal employees.


6 posted on 11/26/2008 10:54:19 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: HappyinAZ

This is a Catholic Caucus. Are you a Catholic?


7 posted on 11/26/2008 10:55:00 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Natural Law

Thank you for placing this into perspective.


8 posted on 11/26/2008 10:55:55 AM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: HappyinAZ
Jerk...time to man up and pay the victims

How many 10s of millions of dollars do you think the victims deserve? Or is it in the billions by now?

Do you realize that our legal system is being, and has been, used to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty for quite some time? And I'm not only talking about the church; research sometime how much of the cost of everything you buy goes into defending against liability suits. Research how much of the cost of medical care goes to pay for unnecessary tests that doctors need to perform, not to diagnose illness, but to defend themselves against malpractice.

I'm all for punishing the guilty. Taking money from the innocent to line the pockets of greedy lawyers in the name of "punishing the guilty" is what makes me flaming mad.

9 posted on 11/26/2008 10:57:52 AM PST by Campion
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To: NYer

I am a catholic...and if you “do the crime”...you should be prepared to “do the time”.

The Church was and still is, guilty of a cover-up.

Fess up....pay the proven victims...go forward and be better.


10 posted on 11/26/2008 11:01:46 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: Campion

If they hadn’t engaged in a systemic cover-up....they wouldn’t be on the hook.


11 posted on 11/26/2008 11:02:45 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ
Jerk...time to man up and pay the victims...disgusting pedophiles.

You put the punishment before the finding of guilt. Very interesting.

12 posted on 11/26/2008 11:04:19 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: HappyinAZ
If they hadn’t engaged in a systemic cover-up....they wouldn’t be on the hook.

They're not yet "on the hook" because there has been no finding of a "systemic cover-up" in this case.

13 posted on 11/26/2008 11:05:17 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: HappyinAZ
The Church was and still is, guilty of a cover-up.

How every fast and loose with the facts.

14 posted on 11/26/2008 11:06:14 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: HappyinAZ
I am a catholic...and if you “do the crime”...you should be prepared to “do the time”. The Church was and still is, guilty of a cover-up. Fess up....pay the proven victims...go forward and be better.

Already been done and paid, probably many who weren't victims got paid as well. This is now turning into future income project for lawyers, not unlike asbestos lawsuits. Nothing more than avaricious lawyers and plaintiffs looking for the lottery.

15 posted on 11/26/2008 11:06:27 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: HappyinAZ
I am a catholic...

All the Catholics I know capitalize the word.

16 posted on 11/26/2008 11:07:12 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: HappyinAZ

I have said before, and I will say again: If either of my children had ever been abused by a priest, I would be in prison and the priest would be dead. None of us would take money in exchange for innocence, and those who would are nothing but pimps.


17 posted on 11/26/2008 11:09:06 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: HappyinAZ; Petronski
I am a catholic...

Yeah, you're the one who was criticizing the Church yesterday for spending "hundreds of thousands on that little show. You're the first "catholic" I know of that calls the Mass "a show."

18 posted on 11/26/2008 11:12:30 AM PST by Pyro7480 (This Papist asks everyone to continue to pray the Rosary for our country!)
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To: Pyro7480

Well, there IS that.


19 posted on 11/26/2008 11:13:40 AM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)
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To: Pyro7480

Mass wasn’t designed to be a show: and if a big flashy event is your thing....then I’m sorry for you.

Jesus set the example...you might want to think about that.


20 posted on 11/26/2008 11:14:34 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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