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To: NYer

The true schism in the Catholic church is between those who embrace the faith, and those who desire the social standing among Catholics.

Two and three generations ago, American Catholics to a great extent lived in communities whose secular behavior revolved around the church. Priests and bishops were the center of the community, and had indirect secular power over the government and civic institutions. If you did not belong to the church, you were excluded from much of the secular community.

Had this situation not evolved, many of the “social” Catholics of today would have long ago abandoned the church, their faith meaning little to them compared to their secular lives. Instead, today they try to embrace Catholics as one of them, yet despise their faith.

As such they are like a viper held to the bosom. They cannot help their reptilian nature and will bite those showing only care to them. It is best that they are turned loose, to live in the rocks with other such snakes.


4 posted on 11/20/2008 4:15:31 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Two and three generations ago, American Catholics to a great extent lived in communities whose secular behavior revolved around the church.

That would be my generation ;-)

One of my favorite books in the OT is Ecclesiastes who tells us that "everything old is new again. There is nothing new under the sun". This is also true of the Catholic Church. Look back even farther into the history of the church and you will find periods filled with abuses. The one consolation we have as Catholics is the knowledge that the Holy Spirit guides the Church, despite the failings of the men who run it. St. Paul reminds us to "hold fast" to our faith.

We know from history that there are cycles in nature and also in the Church. We are in such a cycle now and must pray that holy men and women will rise up and restore the treasures that have been misplaced. There are those, like you and I, who are doing just that.

5 posted on 11/20/2008 4:31:38 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; NYer

“Two and three generations ago, American Catholics to a great extent lived in communities whose secular behavior revolved around the church. Priests and bishops were the center of the community, and had indirect secular power over the government and civic institutions.

When I was a boy, our small city was ultimately run by three men, the senior Roman Catholic monsignor, the rabbi and the Greek priest. Their successors have some influence and generally for the good of the community but its nothing like what it was decades ago. Nowadays there are athletic games for the kids on Sunday mornings...a result of Mass on Saturday late afternoons.

” If you did not belong to the church, you were excluded from much of the secular community.”

I remember when a French Canadian doctor ran for mayor of our city. He was the big favorite to win. Everyone assumed that he was a practicing Roman Catholic. In fact, he was an Episcopalian. On the Monday before the Nov. election, the local paper ran a picture of him leaving the Protestant church the day before. He was crushed at the polls.


8 posted on 11/20/2008 5:36:45 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

I agree with what you say but in the past there was something going on at the parishes all the time. Mothers didn’t work outside the home, for the most part, and much of their social life was within the parish. Now, almost everyone works! Children’s lives revolve around secular school and non-religious activities.

We have a constant battle with the schools not to have any extra-curriculars on Wednesday nights and there will probably come a day when they won’t feel they need to give us that courtesy at all.

Somehow, we have to help them “own” their faith. Not to go through the motions to please Mom and Dad, who don’t go to Mass or Grandma, who does.

I have had some luck, most of the kids I have had in my Confirmation classes are still going to Mass and they are out of their teens now. They are getting married in the Church. It may be that I have taught more in the vein of RCIA, or it might be that I am very firm in my faith and emotional and I show it. And yet, sometimes I think that we want them to have the theology so we drill them without making them understand that the commitment is a gift and not a chore. You aren’t going to hell if you can’t name the 7 sacraments, it is the heart that must be touched before the teaching is absorbed and when that happens they can’t get enough.


17 posted on 11/20/2008 8:52:31 PM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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