Posted on 11/14/2008 9:52:50 AM PST by NYer
You can vote in the AmP Poll at the bottom of this post. But first, the details....
The pastor of St. Mary Catholic Church in Greenville, SC, is urging parishioners who voted for Barack Obama not to present themselves for Communion unless they go to confession first because they have cooperated with "intrinsic evil'' by voting for a candidate who supports abortion rights over a candidate who does not. The Rev. Jay Scott Newman told the Greenville News that he doesn't intend to deny anyone Communion, but made it clear that his view is that Obama voters should not present themselves without seeking penance first "lest they eat and drink their own condemnation.''
Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ’s Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation.
Now here's an interesting thing, the parishioners don't seem too upset, at least according to Fr. Newman. Remember who we are hearing this from, of course. I wonder if the parish leans heavily right?
More amazingly, one could conclude the local diocese of Charleston has Fr. Newman's back:
"Stephen Gajdosik, spokesman for the Catholic Diocese of Charleston, told The News that calling parishioners who voted for a candidate who supports legalized abortions to penance is a question of how best to deepen a flock's relationship to God and a move left up to local priests. He said such a move is appropriate and in line with church teaching."
"Newman said, "An uninformed vote is an irresponsible vote," and that no informed voter this year could have mistaken the candidates' abortion positions." [source.]
Intentional lack of the clear Church teaching on baby butchery (and many other topics) from lib bishops had everything to do with how misinformed the majority of Catholics seem to be. How can a misinformed Catholic who votes baby butchery be as guilty as an informed Catholic who votes baby butchery? Yeah, they are both wrong but one is more wrong than the other, right?
Freegards
Sorry for my use of potty language. I never thought of the word in question as “potty language”, will try to do better on R.forum.
Freegards
Suppose Hitler were up for election and he promised to continue killing Jews, but he otherwise promised to be a good guy. Would it be a sin to vote for him? Yes
Understand, Obama holds the highly radical position that if the mother merely intended to abort her baby, that the baby should die. This is a truly appalling lack of respect for the sanctity of life and sets a precedent for selective euthanasia.
Sure - it’s a venial sin at the very least.
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How can a Catholic possibly be misinformed these days?
Which Catholics believe in abortion? One might guess it would be those who haven't access to computers or newspapers, who haven't been exposed to much outside their own Church or parish, but isn't it more prevalent amongst those who have been educated? Who do have access?
Apology accepted. I confess I didn’t even notice it.
Alas Sister Rita is now retired and most children fortunate enough to attend Catholic school, are taught by lay people. My daughter would tell me that her science class often ran two periods because the science teacher was also the religion instructor. You can see where he placed his priorities.
As Dir for Rel Ed at my parish, let me assure you that it is a struggle to convince parents to send their children to Sunday school. Ironically, parents of 2 and 3 y/o's beg to have their kids admitted to class. It matters not that their babies comperhend nothing and only disrupt the class for the 4 and 5 y/o's. But once the kids reach age 10, the battle ensues. They don't want to come and Mom and Dad give every excuse imaginable in their son (or daughter)'s defense .... he has (fill in the sport) practice at that time, she has a b'day party (or is in a wedding, etc) on that day ....
Like you, I also had the nuns but those days are long gone. The bishop in our RC diocese has now made rel ed, optional. Is it any wonder the children and their parents are all confused?
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I agree it sounds dreadful, but only because many Catholics today have chosen to live a secular lifestyle. They have chosen to look away from the truth.
They can be misinformed because the bishops were not clear, and haven’t been doing their jobs for 40 years. Especially in some areas of the country. Plus, they see famous pro-baby butchery Catholics be pro-baby butchery with impunity and so think it really isn’t a big deal.
As to which is more common, those who are misinformed or those that are informed as to Church teaching, how many U.S. Catholics have heard of the term “latae sententiae” and the concept that goes with it? I would guess only a fraction. I am not denying many were informed and did the wrong thing. I am just saying that many were misinformed and did the wrong thing too.
Freegards
As to which is more common, those who are misinformed or those that are informed as to Church teaching, how many U.S. Catholics have heard of the term “latae sententiae” and the concept that goes with it? I would guess only a fraction. I am not denying many were informed and did the wrong thing. I am just saying that many were misinformed and did the wrong thing too.
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I'm sure there are a number of issues in which Catholics might understandably be led astray by errant bishops, but abortion? I don't think so.
Rather then have a formal religious ed class, the parents who don’t want the kids in class should be given the books necessary to teach their kids the catechism. In the best of worlds, they would have already owned the books. Then, let the parents know that before the kids get First Communion Father will be sitting down and having a chat with them. If their child has not been taught the basics of the faith, they’ll have to wait. A rel. ed class that is full of malcontents who make the time there stressful and a waste is not somewhere I want my children to be. Too often the children that do attend reflect the negative CINO attitudes of the parents, and since I don’t interact with them, why should my children? Sometimes it’s the instructors, too. Liberal agendas and an attitude of martyrdom. My two cents.
Not a reflection on you, NYer. We all know that you are the exception. But boy, all of the parish religious education classes my kids went through were wretched.
Of course.
Oh, they know abortion is wrong, but since they didn’t vote for him because of his views on abortion, they think that this is cool with the Church. How could they have gotten such a mixed up idea? Because many bishops gave this impression.
Freegards
It’s his church. He can do what he wants and if they don’t like it they can become Unitarians.
How then are they prepared for the Sacrements?
“Yes, but how many Catholics “shopped around” until they found a bishop whose teachings reflected their own incorrect beliefs? “
And I would bet that most of them did not have very far to shop.
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Anyone who has read "Evangelium vitae" cannot possibly be confused about abortion. http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0141/_INDEX.HTM
“Anyone who has read “Evangelium vitae” cannot possibly be confused about abortion.”
How many US Catholics have heard of Evangelium vitae much less read it? I’d hazard that the number is much less than even 50%.
Freegards
Teaching has been abysmal for so long, even people who went to Catholic schools say this sort of thing. I was sort of speechless.
It's absolutely frightening what we encounter in our small parish. And these are the 'lucky' ones whose families had the wherewithall to baptize their children. I think we would shudder to read the statistics on the number of "catholic" families that have never had their children baptized, much less catechized.
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