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USCCB: Church should oppose FOCA 'early and often,' Niederauer (Pelosi's Archbishop) says
Nat CatholicReporter ^
| Nov 11, 2008 13:30pm
| JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
Posted on 11/11/2008 10:49:45 PM PST by Salvation
USCCB: Church should oppose FOCA 'early and often,' Niederauer says
Posted on Nov 11, 2008 13:30pm CST.
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By JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
Baltimore
Facing President-elect Barak Obamas pledge to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which would bar legal restrictions on abortion at the state and federal level, Archbishop George Niederauer of San Francisco today said that the Catholic church needs to make the case against the measure early and often, both with members of congress and with the new administration.
Speaking with reporters during the Nov. 10-13 meeting of the U.S. bishops in Baltimore, Niederauer suggested that it would be a mistake to interpret Obamas victory as an expression of popular support for the Freedom of Choice Act, known as FOCA.
Niederauer heads the communications committee for the U.S. bishops conference.
If you look at exit polls on election day, you will not find very many people who came out of the polling place and said their vote for either candidate was based on FOCA, Niederauer said. Many wouldnt know what it is.
Asked what the church should do about Catholic legislators who support FOCA, Niederauer said that the bishops agree on the diagnosis that such a vote amounts to cooperation in evil but may not be able to reach a common policy on the hot-button question of whether to deny communion to pro-choice politicians.
We have a very strong statement made in 2004, he said. Its still in place. It says we should not give a platform [to pro-choice politicians], we shouldnt give them awards or feature them. But with regard to Holy Communion, it is left up to the pastoral sensitivity and responsibility of individual bishops to interact with those office-holders in their own diocese.
As person differs from person, Niederauer said, perhaps the best approach may be one thing for one person, another for another.
The Freedom of Choice Act was introduced in the House and Senate in 2004, but to date has not made it beyond the committee stage. Estimates are that states currently have an aggregate number of 300 restrictions on abortion which would be abolished by FOCA, inclduing late term abortion bans, parental consent requirements and parental notification laws.
The web site of Barak Obamas presidential campaign includes a January 2008 statement from Obama issued on the anniversary of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision: When anti-choice protesters blocked the opening of an Illinois Planned Parenthood clinic in a community where affordable health care is in short supply, I was the only candidate for president who spoke out against it, Obama said. And I will continue to defend this right by passing the Freedom of Choice Act as president.
TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholic; catholiclist; foca; niederauer; obama; obamatruthfile
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1
posted on
11/11/2008 10:49:46 PM PST
by
Salvation
To: nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; RobbyS; markomalley; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!
Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.
2
posted on
11/11/2008 10:50:43 PM PST
by
Salvation
( †With God all things are possible.†)
To: Salvation
“MAKE THE CASE WITH”
???????????????????????????????????????
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TELL THE LEGISLATORS . . . GOD SAYS THIS.
THEY COMPLY, OR OUT OF THE CHURCH FORCABLY, IMMEDIATELY AND WHOLESALE at whatever risk to their Salvation.
WHAT’S THIS ‘POLITICING’ to gain favor of man in man’s arena man’s ways—the ways of the flesh—vs insisting that legislators submit to a higher law and THE AUTHORITY OF ALMIGHTY GOD.
Otherwise, the religious hierarchy is just turning itself into yet another lobbying group on a par with those lobbying for free condoms.
CRAZY!
And, to my mind, rather UNBiblical.
Give the legislators XX days to forcefully legislate PREVENTION OF A SINGLE ADDITIONAL INFANT’S MURDER
OR ELSE!
NO DISCUSSION.
NO LOBBYING.
NO POLITICING.
NO INTELLECTUAL GAMES between religious vs secular POLITICIANS!
Sheesh.
This is not the RC’s standing Biblically tall, imho.
3
posted on
11/11/2008 10:53:58 PM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Salvation
Bishops statements and FOCA articles highlighted.
Pray for LIFE!
USCCB: Church should oppose FOCA 'early and often,' Niederauer (Pelosi's Archbishop) says
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4
posted on
11/11/2008 10:55:53 PM PST
by
Salvation
( †With God all things are possible.†)
To: Salvation
Asked what the church should do about Catholic legislators who support FOCA, Niederauer said that the bishops agree on the diagnosis that such a vote amounts to cooperation in evil but may not be able to reach a common policy on the hot-button question of whether to deny communion to pro-choice politicians. They know what needs to be done. The only question is whether they have the courage to do it.
5
posted on
11/11/2008 11:30:15 PM PST
by
iowamark
To: Salvation
If the GOP can not hold the remaining seats that are still unaccounted for could any Dem be counted on to assist in blocking this; Pryor or Byrd??
Sadly, I’m certain that the help would need to come from outside the Catholic faith. Catholic senators with Democrat affiliation could not be counted on and should be publicly excommunicated from the Church should this Amendment pass.
6
posted on
11/11/2008 11:35:35 PM PST
by
incredulous joe
("We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately. ")
To: Quix
I agree.
It should be obvious by now that the conciliatory, “Please be reasonable ...,” “We know your heart’s in the right place ...,” “Don’t want to overreact ...” approach is not working. Charitably, I’ll say it was reasonable to give it a try, but continuing to pursue a clearly failed policy is not rational.
St. Paul says of an unrepentant sinner, “I delivered him up to Satan for the destruction of his flesh” in the hope of saving his soul.
7
posted on
11/12/2008 4:27:28 AM PST
by
Tax-chick
(Teenage mutant tortilla chips - only at Wal-mart!)
To: Quix
THEY COMPLY, OR OUT OF THE CHURCH FORCABLY, IMMEDIATELY AND WHOLESALE at whatever risk to their Salvation.WHATS THIS POLITICING to gain favor of man in mans arena mans waysthe ways of the fleshvs insisting that legislators submit to a higher law and THE AUTHORITY OF ALMIGHTY GOD.
Otherwise, the religious hierarchy is just turning itself into yet another lobbying group on a par with those lobbying for free condoms.
Quix,
While I can understand your angst against our "country" allowing such things, is this attitude you have Biblical? Where do we find St. Paul making such statements against Roman law, which ALSO allowed people to leave their infants to die to exposure if they didn't want them? Or better, slavery? Does Paul speak as such against it?
I think we have to turn to our "Tradition" to get a good idea of what the early Church practiced when Catholics became politicians and could actually help to determine policy. Not sure when that first happened, but by 325 there must have been some Catholic politicians at the latest. I haven't done an extensive analysis on what the Bishops did in these situations, but I am aware of some bishops, such as St. Ambrose, who threatened to excommunicate the EMPEROR HIMSELF for his part in the mass murder of innocents in Greece in the mid-300's.(and the emperor repented - such was the importance of faith and religion in his life...) Clearly, Ambrose was a bishop with guts!!
I think the Bible does have something to say against scandal - such as Paul in 1 Cor 5 and the expulsion of the one causing scandal. But what is Paul's attitude on WHY? To protect the community, true, but ALSO, to save the one in sin. I am not sure I see that attitude in your post.
I am not sure what the ultimate answer will be on this. It is frustrating to see the Catholic bishops often more interested in preserving their public image to managing and teaching the flock about their eternal destiny. I do agree that the Bishops should be doing more. But this nation is not a theocracy (the constitution prevents such thinking), so in essence, we ARE a "lobbying group", whether we like it or not. "True" Christians are more a minority. Are WE evangelizing our more nominal brothers and sisters? Probably not. Otherwise, so many Christians would not have voted for a such an avid supporter of murdering infants in the womb.
And certainly, we SHOULD care about the wayward politician's eternal destiny. I think the Bishop of such people as Bidden and Pelosi should be making more efforts to privately, and if necessary, publically, convincing and chastising and evangelizing them on the Church's stand and how they are scandalizing the public with their dissent towards God's teachings on life.
Regards
8
posted on
11/12/2008 4:43:19 AM PST
by
jo kus
(You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
To: Salvation
Eminences and Excellencies,
The political atmosphere of 15th-16th century Europe is over. Excommunication is not overused now and has not been for the last 400 years. The excuse that there was a time when formal excommunication was done politically and for the wrong reasons does not apply. This is heresy at it's purist form. You can't negotiate with bullies, liturgists and terrorists. The "We really, really, really, really, really mean it" is not working. Brute force is about all they understand.
To quote an American ad campaign: JUST DO IT. Your flock will respect the decision. Don't worry about the publicity. There will still be plenty of donors. Desdemona
9
posted on
11/12/2008 5:28:44 AM PST
by
Desdemona
(Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue (I choose virtue. Values change too often).)
To: Salvation
Pelousey to bishop:”I’ve considered your position and think you are wrong. Abortion is a complex issue, and my actions regarding abortion are perfectly compatable with Church teaching, and I will continue to tell this to anybody that will listen. And I think your hat looks stupid. Now gimme my wafer.”
Wasn’t there supposed to be a meeting were the bishop was going to sit down with the madame speaker? Does anybody know if that happened?
Freegards
10
posted on
11/12/2008 6:48:54 AM PST
by
Ransomed
(Son of Ransomed Says Keep the Faith!)
To: jo kus; Salvation; NYer; DarthVader; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alamo-Girl
Thanks for your kind and thoughtful response. imho . . . and on the other hand with different fingers . . .
1. I don't believe Believers LEADERS particularly are routinely called, per se, primarily to be political lackys in a flesh driven system of buying and selling influence . . . . lobbying . . .
2. Christians and particularly Christian leaders ARE CALLED to state forthrightly THE TRUTHS OF THE GOSPEL . . . GOD'S STANDARDS AND GOD'S PRIORITIES--TO FORCEFULLY [AND LOVINGLY] DELCARE THEM. Sometimes LOVINGLY = STERNLY--WITH CONSEQUENCES.
3. Paul did not hesitate to declare what should be done with various folks who'd crossed various morality lines. We have his declarations, judgments and sentencing in Holy Scripture.
4. What RC Bishop has publicly on CNN consigned what politician to satan for the destruction of the politician's flesh that his soul might be saved? What are they waiting for--150 or 500 million murdered infants? Is THAT the trip-line for decisive courageous Christian declarations from the bureaucratic hierarchy? Or maybe the RC edifice is waiting for the beautiful cathedrals to be buried in baby skulls in garbage bags before their Bishops scrounge some cajones?
5. What's the criteria for stern spiritual declarative action?
6. Playing WIMPY VERBAL FOOTSIE with demonized globalist traitorous legislators is not my idea of PREACHING, MODELING, DECLARING THE GOSPEL to any significant degree. What RESULT do you REALLY, TRULY, ACTUALLY EXPECT from such verbal mutual masturbation exchanges?
7. REDUCED to being lobbyists? LEFT ONLY WITH being lobbists?
8. I THINK !!!!!!!NOT!!!!!!!
9. BELIEVERS IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ARE PART OF HIS OVERCOMING, ALL POWERFUL, SOON TO UTTERLY REIGN WITH HIM . . . BODY. 10. HE HAS SET THE STANDARD!
WE ARE TO DECLARE IT!
WE ARE TO MODEL IT!
WE ARE TO INSIST ON IT!
[particularly in fitting ways and contexts--
WHICH AS PAUL MODELED--INCLUDES FIERCELY]
WE ARE TO CHALLENGE A HELL-BOUND WORLD
TO RISE TO AND ADHERE TO CHRIST'S STANDARD!
On occasion, we are to even administer judgment and discipline!
WE ARE CERTAINLY
TO DECLARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF REBELLION AGAINST GOD!
WE ARE CERTAINLY TO DECLARE THE FIRES OF HELL
AWAIT THOSE IN REBELLION, DEFIANCE AGAINST GOD!
And we are wise to make such declarations vivid, indeed!
WE ARE WISE TO MAKE THEM AS FORCEFUL AS POSSIBLE!
Not only for the legislators and their souls . . .
BUT FOR THE WATCHING ONLOOKERS
And the lukewarm "Christian" wimps on the sidelines
in the hopes that THEY WILL TAKE HEED AND ALSO AVOID
the fires of hell they keep dancing toward
and pretending it's a fun date-night at the latest cute horror movie.
11. GOD HAVE MERCY! This is not a friendly debating society. This is the END TIMES AND A WORLD IS HEADED TOWARD HELL!
12. This is not Sunday Tea for the political Billdo's, lobbyists and their hangers-on to get the message at--that endless word tosses can go on until hell freezes over.
13. What ARE the Bishops waiting for? Ambrose to rise from the dead and show them how? Their order for brass spheres has been delayed by a FedEx pilot's strike? What?
14. Oh, right. The BUREAUCRACY is issuing the orders instead of Holy Spirit. Should have thought of that earlier. My error.
15. Wellll, dear Bishops, poke this in your cap: YOU'D BEST STAND FORTHRIGHTLY AND FORCEFULLY DECLARATIVELY ON THE SIDE OF GOD, RIGHTEOUSNESS, LIFE AND ETERNAL LIFE ON THESE ISSUES AND THAT POST HASTE--ELSE YOU WILL BE ON THE SAME INCREASINGLY STEEP SLIPPERY SLOPE TO HELL THE SECULAR POLITICIANS ARE ON. I suspect you have less than 3 months to stand up and be counted. If you have not excommunicated an infanticizing politician by then, then you'd likely best check to see if God has not excommunicated you from HIS Book of Life.
16. Get your act together group. The pace is picking up.
17. For those who think I'm being overly whatever . . . If my sense in my spirit is any clue, I'm hardly starting to warm-up . . . yet. BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
11
posted on
11/12/2008 7:09:07 AM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Tax-chick
AMEN!
You’ll likely note I used that Scripture in my rant above before I read your post.
Thanks.
12
posted on
11/12/2008 7:14:33 AM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Quix
infantiCIDing politician . . .
They are likely infanticizing from the moment they decide to be politicians.
13
posted on
11/12/2008 7:25:25 AM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Salvation
14
posted on
11/12/2008 7:32:22 AM PST
by
Alex Murphy
( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
This thread should have been posted to the News/Activism forum where it would receive greater attention.
15
posted on
11/12/2008 7:46:08 AM PST
by
NYer
("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
To: Quix; Salvation; DarthVader
I guess I wasn't finished . . . I will be praying and I invite all authentic Christians to join, if led, in praying in agreement . . .
that
All RC Bishops who fail to excommunicate all the 'ostensibly RC' politicos within their turf from the RC Church
. . . that God will remove them . . . from their positions. Actually, I'll pray that, if possible, God will change them into fierce proponents of HIS PRIORITIES in such matters. That where that's not possible because of their willful death grips on compromising wimpiness--that GOD WILL REMOVE THEM within a reasonable-to-HIM time.
Further, that GOD WILL REPLACE SUCH BISHOPS with fiery Holy Spirit-filled Bishops so needed in this dark hour.
Further, that any Bishops who WILL rise to the occasion; judge such political horrific sins and discipline accordingly--I will pray that such Bishops be increasingly Spirit-led and that their ministry and flocks multiply accordingly.
Further, that if Pope B is wimpy in this matter, that The Lord will force him into a retreat where God turns him every which way but loose until he agrees to comply with God's priorities vs man's.
So let it be said. So let it be done. Amen.
16
posted on
11/12/2008 7:52:39 AM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Quix
All RC Bishops who fail to excommunicate all the ‘ostensibly RC’ politicos within their turf from the RC Church
That is, all such ‘ostensibly RC’ politicos who support INFANTICIDE, &/or Homosexual marriage etc.
17
posted on
11/12/2008 7:55:17 AM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Quix
18
posted on
11/12/2008 8:01:04 AM PST
by
DarthVader
(Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
To: DarthVader
PRAISE GOD.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
THANKS TONS for your praying in agreement.
19
posted on
11/12/2008 8:04:31 AM PST
by
Quix
(GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
To: Quix
IMHO, it is as if a great spiritual ship is moving through the deep waters of humanity forcing people to decide, to separate either to the right or the left, to good or to evil, to God or to self will run awry. The more we sense Christ's return, the stronger the separation, the impossibility of not choosing. And though we may grieve for those who chose poorly, we must realize that the separation is also God's will:
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. - Revelation 22:10-13
Truly, all Christians - and particularly those who speak as religious leaders - must testify of Christ, His Name, the will of God without compromise. The time of separation is at hand. To God be the glory!
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