Replies

[ They had to choose whose interpretation of nature was correct was it God as absolute being or the derivative being Satan? Would he accept God, his creator, interpretation of the future or would he look within himself and use an empirical model of self interpretation and test the model to see if his interpretation was correct? It revealed what man would do from that point forward and that is they would look within themselves for the point of truth testing particularity as opposed to looking outside themselves to what God had revealed. ]

I see... you have much to learn.. God bless you..

Thank you all for this fascinating and illuminating sidebar discussion! And thank you, dearest sister in Christ, for your beautiful essay-post at 205. That is definitely a “keeper” for me!

the_conscience, I suspect you have attributed more to betty boop’s use of the word “reason” than she actually expressed. More specifically, to arrive at your conclusion that she elevates “reason” equal to or beyond “faith” would be attributing motives that I have never, ever heard betty boop express.

In sum, faith and reason are complementary – but reason does not, indeed cannot, substitute for faith. That is a point of this passage:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. – Romans 1:20-23

And again, the natural man cannot receive Spiritual truth:

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. – I Corinthians 2:11-14

betty boop’s post makes it clear that Plato was not postulating Dualism. And I am confident that hosepipe does not support that philosophy either.

But as hosepipe is often wont to say: "Jesus: you MUST be born again."

In other words, we must always remember that flesh and blood do not inherit the kingdom of God.

But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

[Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.

[There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. – I Cor 15:35-50

Were it not for the gift of Jesus Christ which we have by the grace of faith, we would be destined for “death death” – not just death of the body, but death of the body and soul:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die [muwth muwth]. – Genesis 2:17

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. – Rev 2:11

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. – Hebrews 9:27-28

It is not a matter of body versus soul or dualism, Jesus Christ IS our life!

We are even now passed from death to life, we are alive with Christ in God.

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. - John 5:24

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. – Galatians 2:20

Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. - John 3:5-7

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

And that is not “Dualism” or “Gnosticism” either.

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

“I see... you have much to learn.. God bless you.. “

Yes I do. Thank you.