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To: topcat54
Others stand on the Word, just as you claim to. What makes your stand the correct one and theirs wrong? You have attempted to show me where they are wrong. Your arguments are unpersuasive, theirs convince.

I urge you to remember the words of Oliver Cromwell, “Think it possible in the bowels of Christ that you may be mistaken.”

I live in the SF Bay area. Thousands of people are not only indifferent to the Word but display outright hostility. many live openly in sinful homosexual relationships. I debate them quite frequently and attempt to show them the Truth of God's message of salvation through the redemptive sacrifice of His Son. Only a few and a very few are willing to listen. They claim to stand on reason, love, and tolerance. They even claim to stand on truth, or at least on what they consider to be the truth. I know their ideas of truth are little more than rationalizations for what they want to believe. I know intellectual arrogance when I see it.

When I listen to or read the men who support my ideas, I know they are as devoted to spreading the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus as I am - and as you claim to be. Many of the men I speak with have sacrificed decades to work in the missions of Asia and the Middle East. After risking their lives to spread the Gospel, I know they would not preach one word they did not consider the Truth of Scripture.

As a layman I am not competent to debate Scripture. I trust the character of the men to whom I listen. Many would cut off their hands before they preached falsehood.

I tell you this, when I read the Apostles of Nicene Creeds, I read nothing of Dispensationalism. Your arguments are simply unimportant to the Truth of Jesus as Messiah.

31 posted on 11/11/2008 5:14:52 AM PST by quadrant (1o)
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To: quadrant
Others stand on the Word, just as you claim to. What makes your stand the correct one and theirs wrong? You have attempted to show me where they are wrong. Your arguments are unpersuasive, theirs convince.

Well, I think I have answered your questions. I have admitted my fallibility; the possibility that I may be wrong. I have said that I am willing to have my views examined in light of the Word of God.

You are not persuaded by my arguments. That is fine. You respond by appealing to "experts" who disagree with my view. This is not a matter of 51% vs. 49%. Recall the cry of the early church, Athanasius contra mundum. Just like Athanasius and Luther, I’m right until someone comes along and conclusively shows me to be wrong. The alternative is a kind of debilitating schizophrenia on theological matters. I have checked my views with the creeds and councils of the Church. They fit without any distortion of either.

In response I have asked a very simple question regarding your statement, I don't believe that the new covenant eradicates the old. I asked you in what way then is the old covenant still in effect? And your biblical basis for such a conclusion.

You seem reluctant to answer. But I see why:

As a layman I am not competent to debate Scripture.

Then, sadly, you are forced to reply on "experts" to do your thinking for you. You must have your own version of the Roman magisterium to tell you what to believe.

But I am also a "layman". Does that make me unqualified to debate these issues?

Why then did you jump into the fray in the first place?

I tell you this, when I read the Apostles of Nicene Creeds, I read nothing of Dispensationalism. Your arguments are simply unimportant to the Truth of Jesus as Messiah.

How can you be so sure when you are admittedly not competent to debate the issue? Why would you adopt and (to a degree) defend a system that you cannot support to those who might question you on it?

Earlier, in response to many passages of Scripture I gave to demonstrate how the new covenant displaced the old and how all those who believe in Christ are the true children of Abraham you said, None, not one, of the passages you cite revokes the Abrahamic covenant.

On what objective basis do you make such a claim?

And recall you were the one who jumped on this topic when you began, The argument - as I understand it - is not factual., and you proceeded to talk about the Garden of Eden and gifts, etc. No actual Scripture references were given.

I don’t mean for you to take this personally. I enjoy discussing these issues. Perhaps we can learn from one another.

32 posted on 11/11/2008 8:37:52 AM PST by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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