Gravediggers come up short on would-be saint's remains

Religion News Service (posted on Modern Reformation) ^ | 7 Oct 2008

[itsthejourney]

there was nothing there -- only dust

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

[Philo-Junius]

It’s the Rapture, and he was the only one missing!

Or just highly acidic English soil; your call.

[HarleyD]

"This was the greatest churchman of the 19th century,"...and there was nothing there -- only dust." ... the cardinal's body had simply disintegrated in the 118 years since it was interred.

Clearly a miracle. Isn't this what happened to Mary? Let's venerate the red tassels. ;O)

[Ann Archy]

Thanks for showing your true colors....:)

[RGPII]

The article addresses this specifically:

" Catholic officials quickly dismissed any theories about a conspiracy, speculating instead that since Newman's coffin was -- to their surprise -- wooden, not lead-lined, the cardinal's body had simply disintegrated in the 118 years since it was interred.

In an official statement, Jennings said that "brass, wooden and cloth artifacts from Cardinal Newman's coffin were found. However, there were no remains of the body."

Wooden you know? No surprise here. 'Tis nature.

[narses]

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[magisterium]

The overwhelming majority of Catholic canonized saints have only skeletal remains or less. Hardly any are preserved in a state even resembling “incorruptibility,” and in no way is such preservation considered a requirement to be met in the canonization process. God may choose, in His omniscience, to preserve some remains entirely, and not others. He alone is sovereign, and He has His reasons, either way.

So, given all that, your point in posting this (old) article is...what...exactly?

[wintertime]

As a Protestant Christian I find this entire exercise utterly befuddling. Why are Catholics digging up his grave?

I **respectfully** ask, “Why are you doing this?”

[Campion]

As a Protestant Christian I find this entire exercise utterly befuddling. Why are Catholics digging up his grave?

Someone being beatified is typically exhumed (if their gravesite is known): (a) to determine whether they've been miraculously preserved; (b) to recover relics; and (c) to move their body to a more accessible or impressive resting place.

It's pretty much standard procedure.

[wintertime]

to recover relics;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why is the condition of the body important?

What is the purpose of relics?

[Campion]

Some saints' bodies are miraculously preserved from decomposition. It's generally considered evidence of great sanctity.

(The reverse is not true, however. Some very great saints were not incorrupt; St. Therese of Liseux is a famous example. Someone actually told her during her life that she would be incorrupt after she died. She said, "Absolutely not" ... and she was right.)

Relics are venerated as a tangible connection to the saint and his life. This has been true since the earliest days of Christianity, when the liturgy was celebrated in the catacombs surrounded by the relics of the martyrs. To this day, a Catholic (or Orthodox) altar generally contains a relic of a saint.

[wintertime]

Thank you

[bdeaner]

Why is the condition of the body important?

I variety of Saints have been exhumed and their bodies have been found to be preserved. When this cannot be explained by mummification, or some other kind of preservation that can be explained by natural causes, the incorruptibility of the body is seen to be a sign of the person's Sainthood. But this is not an essential characteristic of a Saint. Only a minority are incorruptible.

More info here or here.

What is the purpose of relics?

For an explanation of the Catholic view on relics, see here.

[wintertime]

Regarding relics:

Thank you for the links to the scriptural references. I will check the rest out tomorrow.

[RGPII]

As a Protestant Christian I find this entire exercise utterly befuddling. Why are Catholics digging up his grave?

Someone being beatified is typically exhumed (if their gravesite is known): (a) to determine whether they've been miraculously preserved; (b) to recover relics; and (c) to move their body to a more accessible or impressive resting place.

It's pretty much standard procedure.

I do note the tone of the headline "gravedigger" versus the commonly used "exhumed" is not a kind choice of words. But at least today, there is little reason to enter into a debate on this. The practices of other religions could likewise be skewed with unflattering terminology.

[RGPII]

What's curious is another story at that "Modern Reformation" website concerning the famous Evangelical thinker Francis Schaeffer.

Excerpts with a few of my notes:

"As a crusading evangelist and author, Francis Schaeffer ), urged conservative Christians to politically battle abortion and engage the secular culture. But he would have recoiled from the "snide" comments and jeering at this summer's Republican National Convention, his son Frank says.

.....

Schaeffer (the son) has left the Republican Party -- he considers himself an independent and is supporting Barack Obama -- and the evangelical church. He finds the Greek Orthodox Church more suitable to his spirituality than being a "professional Christian."

"If you're an evangelist, you've got to be a special person not to lose your grip on what you believe," he said. "I lost my grip. I had to get out for the salvation of my soul." - Modern Reformation website.

- Link on Schaeffer: so my gosh, myself a Catholic was exposed to Schaeffer being a deep Protestant thinker and I'm not meaning to be judgemental but now his son is thinking these certain ways? Can he actually belong to a Greek Orthodox Church in good conscience?

- Wikipedia Schaeffer article

He looked like some Hepcat or Apostle even if you will and I don't respect him less but I wonder if there has been a breakdown of the message of God in his family.

[Patriotic1]

Indeed, as a Catholic one of my favorite days is Ash Wednesday. The words reminding us that we came from dust and will return to dust have a very strong effect on me. Without God, we are nothing whatsoever.

[Patriotic1]

Just as an aside, the monks of the Carthusian Order are buried straight into the ground. I read a book about them and there were photos. One was of such a burial - I found it odd, but now I wish I could be buried this way.

My mortal remains are of no use to me. I don’t expect God to have a problem recreating a physical body once the time comes - He has a lot of practice with that ;)