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Saint Paul pray for those who hate the Church.Posted on 10/21/2008 6:22:38 AM PDT by Ottofire
Mary Worship Still Alive in Catholicism
10/21/2008 - Tur8infan Benedict XVI is reported (link to report) as recently praying to Mary: "We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your heart," the text of the prayer reads.
This is a prayer that is openly idolatrous. Mankind needs to turn, not to the heart of Mary, but to the Son of Mary, Jesus Christ the Righteous. The true and proper object of worship is God alone.
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Benedict XVI is also reported as praying to her, "If you will not help us because we are ungrateful and unworthy children of your protection, we will not know to whom to turn."
This prayer demonstrates the underlying blindness of Catholicism. There is a place to which not only all of Europe in general, but Mr. Ratzinger in particular ought to turn for help, and whose protection should be sought: the throne of the Most High God, by the intercession of the Son of God, Jesus Christ with the aid of the Holy Spirit.
But though Jesus is the Son of Mary, and though Mary is greatly blessed to be the Mother of our Saviour, yet Jesus himself said:
Matthew 12:48-50
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
And again:
Mary 3:33-35
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
It is almost as though Jesus was concerned lest some might foolishly fall into the trap of worshiping his blood relatives! Indeed, here is Jesus' own condemnation of the error of adoration and veneration of Jesus' mother. They do not hold a special place in the kingdom of God, but are like all those who do the will of God. Yet Catholicism, as can be seen from this event, continues to elevate Mary improperly to the status of, in effect, a goddess to whom prayers are offered.
Benedict XVI did not even omit to provide a sacrifice to this de facto goddess. It is reported that, "In a gesture of filial love, the Pope then offered the Madonna a golden rose." One is reminded immediately of the similar offerings presented by the Philistines to the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament, particularly given Catholicism's claim (or at least the claim of her apologists) that Mary is the "ark of the New Covenant."
Finally, we should note that Benedict XVI is reported not to have left Jesus entirely out: "...The secret of Pompeii is the rosary: "This prayer leads us through Mary to Jesus." But, in fact, the Rosary leads men away from Jesus, as can be seen in the idolatry illustrated in the prayers above. Benedict XVI is reported to have claimed, "The rosary is a spiritual weapon in the struggle against evil, against all violence, for peace in hearts, in families, in society and in the world."
But, in fact, sadly it is an extra-Scriptural innovation: unknown to the apostles and unpracticed for centuries and centuries following Christ's ascension. The Early Church Fathers didn't say the Rosary, and neither should you: it is a tradition of men, not of God.
-TurretinFan
Autobiography Chesterton Chapter XI
One amusing part of it is what he refers to as "the great battle of the Beaconsfield War Memorial." Here is a very small excerpt:
There was a sequel, however, involving more serious things. A renewed shock went through the anti-clerical party on finding that the Cross was a Crucifix. This represented, to many amiable and professedly moderate Nonconformists and other Protestants, exactly that extra touch that they could not tolerate. The distinction is all the more clearly to be kept in mind because it is, on the face of it, an entirely irrational distinction. The sort of Evangelical who demands what he calls a Living Christ must surely find it difficult to reconcile with his religion an indifference to a Dying Christ; but anyhow one would think he would prefer it to a Dead Cross. To salute the Cross in that sense is literally to bow down to wood and stone; since it is only an image in stone of something that was made of wood. It is surely less idolatrous to salute the Incarnate God or His image; and the case is further complicated by the relation of the image to the other object. If a man were ready to wreck every statue of Julius Caesar, but also ready to kiss the sword that killed him, he would be liable to be misunderstood as an ardent admirer of Caesar. If a man hated to have a portrait of Charles the First, but rubbed his hands with joy at the sight of the axe that beheaded him, he would have himself to blame if he were regarded rather as a Roundhead than a Royalist. And to permit a picture of the engine of execution, while forbidding a picture of the victim, is just as strange and sinister in the case of Christ as in that of Caesar. And this illustrates something about the whole situation, which grew clearer and clearer to me about this time and initiated the next step of my life.
As you can surmise Chesterton was not yet a Catholic.
You doubtless say: "The sacrifice is complete, so why do you display a crucifix instead of a bare cross?" The answer is simple, and is in the form of another question: "Why show even a cross, then, since its purpose was finished nearly 2000 years ago, and it has long since been dismantled?" You see, the cross is useless, as is the crucifix, unless both bring to some remembrance the Act which was undertaken on the wood.
As for your observations about Mary's role, I will only say that no Catholic makes the slightest mistake concerning whether she was crucified with Christ. It is silly rhetoric to imply otherwise. Regarding her role in our salvation, you assertion of utter irrelevancy I will charitably ascribe to ignorant hyperbole on your part, a sentiment I will dispense with equal charity concerning your sacrilegious assertions about Semiramis, taken, doubtless, straight from Ralph Woodrow's fevered imaginings.
May God be merciful to you, for if, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" applies to anyone, it doubtless applies to people of your misguided persuasion.
Yes! Thank you. That is exactly so, and, reading between the lines, if he was not yet Catholic when he wrote this, it is clear that attitudes such as these were a catalyst for his eventual conversion.
Saint Paul pray for those who hate the Church.And then you post the "War and Peace" of sophistries to support your assertion. Eternity in the Lake of fire is all the motive needed for God's elect to choose repentance.
"As for your observations about Mary's role, I will only say that no Catholic makes the slightest mistake concerning whether she was crucified with Christ. It is silly rhetoric to imply otherwise. Regarding her role in our salvation, you assertion of utter irrelevancy I will charitably ascribe to ignorant hyperbole on your part, a sentiment I will dispense with equal charity concerning your sacrilegious assertions about Semiramis, taken, doubtless, straight from Ralph Woodrow's fevered imaginings."
Pagan nonsequitur. (Whoever Ralph may be)
And where's my sophistry? You are the one who called the cross "a lie"! "War and Peace" my answer certainly was not. I aim to explain thoroughly, and three short paragraphs to answer your several whoppers is hardly excessive. Especially when there is every indication that a simple short sentence or two will definitely be misapprehended. Make of that what you will.
Good evening to you.
It is because we love our dear Catholic brothers and sisters that it grieves us so much to see them led away from God by a seductive and alluring idol, The Goddess. The Roman Catholic church has been right so often on so many issues, surely it makes sense for the enemy of our souls to confuse, bemuse, and warp their piety by providing an alternate deity to call upon, invoke, and look to for grace. If Satan can appear as an angel of light, why not as a deified human woman?
OK, I see. Jesus Christ Himself isn't good enough to render our prayers acceptable to God. We need to ping His mommy, if we really want results.
I know!!
I'm so glad that Rome gave us the Blessed Sacrament. What would we ever do with out Rome?
I don't mean to be arguemenative. But I think THAT (above) is the key issue. Protestants (as I understand it) believe that through Jesus (and Jesus alone) one can commune with God. The Protestant does not believe that one has to go through Mary to get to Jesus. The protestant admires Mary for her faith. Having said that I'm reading through Pope Benedict's book on Jesus and it's a very interesting read. Maybe after football season I'll have a little more free time on the weekends. LOL!
Paul might have an argument against that belief.
Not the slightest chance. The arisen Christ is the message. (except to the pagans)
You can battle that chemera all you wish, but all here know that it's a lie. The cross is not the lie, the crucifix is. He is arisen victorious, not hanging dead for eternity as RCs portray him.
I'll never forget my Great Grandfather's High Mass funeral, at St. Joseph's in San Jose. The Bishop of the diocease conducted it. They had hated each other for decades. He draped a large black velvet blanket over the casket, and then a narrow banner with a ten foot long white cross on a black background, with a white fringe was draped over the casket lengthwise, leaving a three foot inverted cross visible to the congregation. 300 people gasped in unison. It would have made Anton LeVey proud. I was five years old at the time, and it left a lasting impression. It would be 48 years before I again entered a RC church, necessitated by a friend's wedding.
The capitol city of Italy gave you a "blessed sacrament?" And you accepted it?
What would we ever do with out Rome?
I suppose you could vacation in Milan or Florence or Venice. I've heard they're all beautiful too.
Who are these RCs who portray Christ as hanging dead for all eternity? That's sick.
The Crucifix does not portray a dead Christ, but a Christ dying for our sins.
1 Corinthians 1:23
If you read the whole thread and still don’t understand, there is nothing more I can say.
It is no different then me asking you to pray for me. Your acceptance of Catholic theology is an important part of understanding. We believe Mary was born without original sin, you think she was just a woman God chose at random. We believe Mary was assumed up to heaven body and soul, like Elijah. I am not sure what you believe on that point. We have different understandings of who Mary was and is, that is the reason you can not understand why we would ask her to pray for us.
Mary is the Queen of heaven over all the angels and saints. And yes she is our mother, too. Jesus gave her to us at the foot of the cross, not to just John. That too is a difference in our beliefs. The respect that is given to Mary, is in honor of her yes to God’s request of her, this woman he had chosen even before she was born. She had free will and could have said no. She is an example of turning over ourselves and saying yes to God. That has always been taught.
So you see, we have a difference in Marian beliefs. But that’s ok, I figure if she was good enough for Jesus, then she is good enough for me.
Let's get real here. The color for Catholic funerals everywhere back then was black. Nothing odd there. And the cross was "inverted" from whose perspective? If it was inverted to yours, it was right-side-up from the perspective of the sanctuary. Or vice-versa. What utter nonsense to make something sinister from this! It is impossible that you "knew" the alleged sinister character of these things as you claim you witnessed them. Your young mind was subsequently fed with all kinds of mush. And permit me to state my own personal disbelief in your assertion that 300 people "gasped in unison." Make of that what you will. Sorry, no sale.
Oh, and you knew enough about Catholic liturgy of the time to know that it was a High Mass? Go ahead and describe it then. Please use detail in such a way that a High Requiem Mass is clearly indicated. I have served the Tridentine Mass as an acolyte and Master of Ceremonies in all of its forms since 1991, so don't feed me any cowchips.
ROFLMTO
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