Posted on 09/01/2008 9:48:04 AM PDT by IreneE
Ooohh, that’s gotta hurt...
Jack Hayford is a fine man and a fine Christian.
Then I expect to see the Mitt folks in these threads backing her up and calling the Dem's Haters and Bigots.
Yes, I have personal meetings with him on specific things I was working on many times. However, he dropped the ball on Lakeland when I was asking the Lord to allow him to live long enough to stand up against the End Time Delusion. Unfortunately, the NARbots of Cindy Jacobs, Chuck Pierce (who wrote some of the literature for Cleansing Stream) and C Peter Wagner are friendly with Jack Hayford. I believe this is why he issued his very lukewarm statement about it, instead of protecting the wounded flock from the false teachings of Todd Bentley and company.
Cleansing Stream is a wonderful program. I’ve been twice and was set free from several things that had caused so much unhappines in my life.
Cleansing Stream is a wonderful program. I’ve been twice and was set free from several things that had caused so much unhappines in my life.
First of all, I do not know anything about the authors motivations or if they are representing the subjects correctly.
But the group sounds like a Christian Identity (Neo Nazi) type group. The whole “seed of Cain” thing is what tipped my whiskers about it. That is a similar thing that some of those groups use to say that the only “pure” race is the “white” race (never mind white is not a racial group).
But, I have also seen times where the left will invent bogey men to justify their own goals. The whole Dominionist scare is often used as a reason for someone to argue that Christians should not be in politics, or be banned from voting.
This is the first I’ve heard of it.
I’m fairly strongly of the opinion that
THE WEAPONS OF OUR WARFARE ARE NOT CARNAL . . . i.e. are instead, prayer, right living, doing good works etc.
There is the Scripture about the righteous taking ?territory? spiritual territory? by force but that’s rather vague . . . the force of love and spiritual clout with God are the most powerful forces.
Of course I’m in favor of the 2nd amendment and being prepared in a variety of ways for what’s ahead.
But mostly, I think that means being prayed up and walking close to God. Certainly the other stuff can be important but not near as important as those priorities.
I personally think Christ returning with the saints to wage war at Armageddon will be the first such “action” most Believers will see of that sort of thing.
On the other hand, there will be a lot of believers calling down heavenly forces to do battle for them in this sphere.
I totally expect that children will pronounce judgment and whole armies and their arms and generals will be swallowed up by the earth.
So, I really don’t know where this movement is coming from or going. Sounds rather questionable, to me.
But, I have also seen times where the left will invent bogey men to justify their own goals. The whole Dominionist scare is often used as a reason for someone to argue that Christians should not be in politics, or be banned from voting.I wonder why the "Dominionist" label is never applied to "Christian" socialists who try to warp teachings on charity to justify a Marxist nanny state? IMO this is much more dangerous than the type of fringe groups being described here (not defending them in any way: on the contrary, they should be condemned in the strongest possible terms and any illegal action on their part should be dealt with accordingly) if only because "Christian" socialism is much more mainstream and influential on society as a whole.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.” –C.S. LewisPing to Coyoteman as this relates to your post 3.
I’ll send you a link on cleansing stream. I know it may be helpful for some, but there is an infectious doctrine of these Elijah Listers that we must show our selves approved to understand and rebuke.
These people are actual Dominionists. And they teach “Imprecatory Prayer” which is exactly “praying against flesh and blood” — much like the Mormons did. It is praying down curses on your enemies and thinking it is Christ!
Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Paul Cain. William Branham...
Look up their doctrine of “Manifest Sons of God” — they believe they have to take over nations and governments IN ORDER that Christ returns.
I know the Left could have field day with this, but it is such heresy, it doesn’t matter. These people no longer love the truth of God’s word and are buying into William Branham’s doctrine of demons. Google around...
The Elijah List has far too much commercialization for my taste by a long shot.
When I confronted the founder about it, he insisted that it’s to help fund a long list of single mothers etc. etc. etc. . . . quite admirable and praise God for that.
However, when even the printer friendly pages are outrageously filled with ads, something’s out of balance, imho.
I don’t think everything he posts on the list is anointed or straight from God. A number of things are—and are a blessing to the Body of Christ.
The characters you listed certainly have their flaws and saying goofy things at times has been one of them.
Nevertheless, God has used them and those still in this dimension who have made things right where correction was needed will be used of God again.
It is still hazardous to throw unnecessary rocks at folks God is using.
I received an excellent article in the email basket that I hope to share when I get some other things further along.
Certainly we are to point out unBiblical error etc.
However, a lot of the rock throwing originates out of folks hostile to other Believers because
“THEY MUST BE WRONG BECAUSE THEY DON’T DO THINGS LIKE WE DO”
and I don’t think God is typically very impressed with that.
HE LOVES to use His ‘foolishness’ with very strange birds to confound the wise.
We’ve done it several times in our church and it’s been an excellent program. I hope we can do it again. The retreats are very good. I was freed up of some things that held me back for years. The depression lifted. I highly recommend it to anyone.
We’ve done it several times in our church and it’s been an excellent program. I hope we can do it again. The retreats are very good. I was freed up of some things that held me back for years. The depression lifted. I highly recommend it to anyone.
Exactly, Quix. Thank you. I get weary of the rock throwers and bet God does, too. Not all Christian leaders are perfect, nor will any of us be until the return of Christ.
I would be really interested in knowing exactly what organizations they say they are donating money to, as well (outside of their own ‘prophetic” ministries of course)
This has nothing to do with doing it my own way: it has everything to do with bumping up against God's admonitions against false teachings and false prophets...
You know of course, of the encyclopedia full of false prophecies out of BoB jones and Paul Cain and Cindy Jacobs and Rick Joyner et all?
The slaughter of faith in the spirit at Lakeland this summer? Elijah List/GOD TV backed.
Chuck Pierce preaching and peddling the Kabballah on the Elijah List and passing it off as God's prophetic word of the week?
Pierce was caught red handed plagiarizing this year and has not repented since.
Nor have any of the Elijah Listers/NARbots/Domininists who laid hands on Todd Bentley at Lakeland declaring it was a sovereign move of a Holy God and declaring him to be an Apostle of the Most High —
NONE OF THEM HAVE REPENTED FOR THEIR LYING PROPHECIES OVER TODD BENTLEY. A true prophet “sees” sin on someone, this is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit. As Nathan saw David's sin; as Peter say Ananias and Sapphira's’ sin. But these so called “Prophets” Elijah List did not see the sin on Todd Bentley... NOR REFUNDED THE MONEY. NOR PRAYED OFF THE DEMONIC IMPARTATIONS THAT BENTLEY WAS DOING; EVERYONE WAS WARNING THEM ABOUT BECAUSE OF THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF PRAYING WITH ANGELS and WILLIAM BRANHAM'S FALSE TEACHINGS...
Sorry for the caps, it is just that these people are the deluded Joel 2 army that God said he promises he will send.
First they had the Elijah list, now they have the false prophets of God Tv.
Its a nightmare.
I’ll wait to make a substantive comment until I post the doc I received in email about all that.
I’m probably not aware of every last sin and offense. I’m aware of more than I want to be aware of.
Steve, founder of Elijah list, takes care of a sizable list of single mothers IN THEIR CHURCH with the sales of media products from the list. Yes, I communicated with him repeatedly about it. He wouldn’t budge.
I notice that someone eventually got through to him and the “printer friendly” pages have finally been made significantly more printer friendly.
One of my friends from Taiwan that I had a hand in becoming a Christian is in the same church in Oregon with his Chinese wife and beautiful kids growing on in The Lord. Praise God! He notes that Steve is fairly hard headed about such things.
We’ve known and prayed for some time that God would clean up the prophetic scene in our era. He is in the process of doing so. A lot of the critics will not be that happy when God is done. God will insure that they also reap fittingly from unrepented unfitting fleshly critical judgment, where applicable.
Some folks look at such mixtures and horrors and pretend that’s proof that there’s no modern era authentic Christian prophetic to be walked out Biblically, anointed.
THAT’S FAR from the truth.
Thanks.
Blessed be the Name of The Lord.
Bob Jones: “When I was in the mental institution, God told me I would have to either forgive 12 people or MURDER 12 people to regain my sanity.”
Bob Jones on being caught prophesying over women while they were naked in his church office: 'It was just a spirit of lust" Rick Joyner: “People keep referring to Jesus as the MAN from Galilee. He is not a man. Jesus was and IS Spirit.”
C Peter Wagner: “Evangelism is best done by taking the cities for God with declarations over riverways, buildings, and geographical portals.”
C Peter Wagner: “Wealth is the biggest and best way to change society in the history of mankind.’
(Uh, Peter, ever hear of Jesus’ effect on western civilization?)
Cindy Jacobs: 18 months before the Indonesian tsunami “I see prosperity and great financial growth in INDONESIA, thus saith the Lord!”
Chuck Pierce ripping off the astrological Kaballah and saying that it was the weekly Word of the Lord to the Body. (Still has not repented.)
Paul Cain (May 2008 at Lakeland): “I have been a celibate all of my life!”
Todd Bentley: “The Lord told me “You have to get them to believe in the Angel!”
Jim Goll with John Crowder: “Smokin’ and tokin’ the Holy Spirit joint — did you get high?”
Rick Joyner: “Bob Jones and Paul Cain are the two end time witnesses in the Bible” and “the most accurate prophets ever.”
Rick Joyner: “The Apostle Paul had a problem with pride that he never wrote about, and he was envious of me when I met him because he failed at being a great Apostle. Just as Paul had pride, some young prophets are unskilled and immature so they are being called false prophets.”
Paul Cain: “In the end times, we will be physically glorified and transfigured, and we will be invincible and no one will be able to physically harm us”
Bill Hamon: “The Office of the Prophet is a different gift than the layman's common gift of prophesy available to everyone after Pentecost. You must be trained and schooled for this special, End Times office, as new revelation will flow that will supersede the Word of God.”
These are just some of the quotes I remember... some may be paraphrases but they capture the Christianese of this false doctrine.
Much has been documented about Bob Jones’ angel Emma that translates into the Satanic demon Emma o, but more than this, Jones’s own sexual perversion while prophesying over the naked women in his Anaheim Vineyard church office is the clincher that he is a male Jezebel and this whole movement is run by familiar spirits.
There is much documentation on this fact. The fact that none of the Elijah Listers prophecies every come true — or how they prophesy after the fact — as Chuck Pierce did after the China earthquake this year — shows the very foundational of the Elijah’ Listers doctrine is satanic.
It is not called the Apostolic Prophetic cult for a reason...
Oh and yes, I believe in the full gifts of charismatia.
And I am God's anointed, as you are, so none of that false shaming.
And Jesus is the biggest heresy hunter that ever lived because He kept warning us, over and over, against false teachings and false prophets and the Anti Christ.
(The above are the three stock objections when you try to deconstruct the false teachings of the NAR. )
it is a dangerous cult, very much akin to Mormonism.
Then Jesus is, by your estimation Mary, the biggest “rock thrower” of them all.
How many times did He warn us against false teachings and false prophesy?
Again, if we cannot discern false teaching of false prophets now,
HOW will we discern THE False Prophet of the book of revelation who ushers in the Anti Christ?
When John tells us to “test the spirits, my beloved, because not every spirit comes from God”
... you know that this means test the teaching to make sure it lines up with the Gospel, right?
The Heresy hunter/rock throwin’ argument got long in the tooth months before Bentley was found out to be a fraud at Lakeland.
Show yourself approved. I’m not taking the time to post this out of any ego need, but out of a need to warn fellow Christians of the promised delusion that God says He WILL SEND.
Google the prophetic word of some guy from Colorado called “The Specter of the Red” too. Red means dull or dumb and silent when taken in context of how we “see”. It is also related to Edom or Essau’s problem of giving up the inheritance for the sins of the flesh.
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