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To: The Grammarian; PAR35; Gamecock
Only Wesley would say Arminianism is a "hair's breadth from Calvinism."

It's a "hair's breadth" from Rome.

Either God elects based on His good pleasure alone and not on any good works men have done/might do, or men get themselves elected by their own good efforts and pious intentions.

Salvation is by free and unmerited grace through faith in Christ, and that is not of ourselves. It is a gift from God to whom He will.

Wesley was an excellent preacher and a devout Christian, but he contributed to the eventual erosion of men's understanding of God's sovereignty, instead replacing it with God's passivity and ultimate ineptitude. I prefer George Whitefield.

WHITEFIELD TO WESLEY

64 posted on 08/22/2008 1:34:56 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Only Wesley would say Arminianism is a "hair's breadth from Calvinism."

As strong as the emphasis on free grace is in Wesleyan-Arminianism, it's not so far off.

Either God elects based on His good pleasure alone and not on any good works men have done/might do, or men get themselves elected by their own good efforts and pious intentions.

Faith isn't a good work or pious intention. It is, as you say below, a gift from God.

Salvation is by free and unmerited grace through faith in Christ, and that is not of ourselves. It is a gift from God to whom He will.

Wesley would agree.

Wesley was an excellent preacher and a devout Christian, but he contributed to the eventual erosion of men's understanding of God's sovereignty, instead replacing it with God's passivity and ultimate ineptitude. I prefer George Whitefield.

That is more charitable than some give Wesley credit for around here. I guess I'm not the only one who's mellowed out on the Calv/Arm threads over the years.

68 posted on 08/22/2008 4:31:43 AM PDT by The Grammarian
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Either God elects based on His good pleasure alone and not on any good works men have done/might do, or men get themselves elected by their own good efforts and pious intentions.

Scripture does not support your either/or claim; nor is there any logical reason to demand such a sharp distinction.

Scripture does indeed tell us the God is sovereign. And Scripture also tells us that we are responsible for our actions: Jesus promises judgment, and calls for repentence -- neither of which make sense unless our own efforts matter to God.

One need not claim anything like equal roles in the matter of salvation; but it is contrary to Jesus' own words to claim we humans have no role in it.

71 posted on 08/22/2008 6:59:33 AM PDT by r9etb
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