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To: xJones
Yes, and furthermore, in Ezekiel 33:10 we read:

Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

So you see that no one is arguing that God takes pleasure in the death of the wicked, yet he hates the worker of iniquity who turns not. Yet God cannot deny Himself and His attributes. He is just. He is merciful. He is holy. How can His justice be reconiciled with his mercy?

If He were to send His Son to die for sin with the hypothetical possibility, according to free-will reasoning, that not a single person would be saved, then of what value is such an ineffectual atonement?

No, my friend, it is God who saves; nothing is too hard for Him.

As far as election, it is a repugnant notion to the natural man, yes, ingrained as we are with the original sin of pride ("You will be like God, knowing good from evil.").

There's that one, little tiny piece that we don't want to give to God. We don't trust Him when it comes to our eternal destiny. We think we know better. My friend, do not trust your deceitful heart. Consider the brevity of man's days, how he is like a mist (Ps. 144). Put your trust in Jesus, as your heavenly shepherd! Ask Him to conquer your proud heart and till the hard soil, to keep you from the sin of the Pharisees (Is. 58:3). He is faithful and true!

37 posted on 08/21/2008 5:07:42 PM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom
I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

I think you just shot yourself in your Calvinist foot; in this verse God gives them free will, they have a choice. Their fate is not already ordained, they have a free will choice.

40 posted on 08/21/2008 5:17:38 PM PDT by xJones
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To: Lexinom
As far as election, it is a repugnant notion to the natural man, yes, ingrained as we are with the original sin of pride ("You will be like God, knowing good from evil."). There's that one, little tiny piece that we don't want to give to God. We don't trust Him when it comes to our eternal destiny. We think we know better. My friend, do not trust your deceitful heart. Consider the brevity of man's days, how he is like a mist (Ps. 144). Put your trust in Jesus, as your heavenly shepherd! Ask Him to conquer your proud heart and till the hard soil, to keep you from the sin of the Pharisees (Is. 58:)

I do not understand your point. In Reform theology all men are reprobate. Then the elect are imbued with irreistable grace which allows them to be regenerated (involuntarily) (born again-a new man). At this point one is "born again" as Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3. So far there is not a drop of blood shed in Calvinism. The elect are regenerated so they can then have faith (involuntary) followed by a voluntary exercise of faith. But that would mean 'faith' is a gift of faith that is not equal to believing in Christ. In other words, as money muct be spent, so faith must be exercised. Can Biblical faith, which is saving faith, be viewed as anything less than, or short of, faith in Jesus Christ.

As Sproul says, "The elect are saved to have faith." The Bible says, "Those who have faith are saved".

KThere is no ambiguity regarding the sequence of events that occur for the elect to be saved.The Calivinist could say, faith can precede and lead to justification and still not allow a man to take credit for justification because the fith that lead to justification is a gift from God. Scripturally speaking, however, since faith is neither a work nor a meritorious act of any kind God can require a man to believe as a condition of justification, or regeneration for that matter, without surrendering any of the credit to man. But they do not because of the Calvinist distinctive of total depravity. So the entire schema of Calvinism is designed to fit the decrees of the Pope of Genieva.

47 posted on 08/21/2008 6:29:37 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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