Posted on 07/28/2008 11:01:24 PM PDT by Gamecock
Jesus seems as much as any other rabbi in this.
We’re all familiar with the phrase ‘You must be born again’ but know this, the Hebrew doesn’t say that, neither does the Greek (I’ve done my homework, you check it for yourself).
The correct translation of this sentence would be ‘you must be born from above’ which changes the nature of the conversation. Let’s have some fun and read this section like it’s a scene from one of Shakespeare’s plays.
Enter: Yeshua, a Jewish Rabbi
Enter: Nichodemus, a Pharisee with a Greek name? Nicho – Nike – Victory Demus - Demography – people, victory over the people.
John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Yeshua by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Yeshua answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Yeshua clarifies…
5 Yeshua answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Yeshua answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
***
Nicodemus enters and says: “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
Flattery you know.
Yeshua ignores his opening comment and states: “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Which confuses Nick who replies: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” [no]
Yeshua clarifies: “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Born from above, Spirit and born of water, flesh. See: Genesis 1: 27 for spirit see your parents for flesh.
And now to my favorite line in this section!
“Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
Now that’s a Shakespearean level insult if I’ve ever seen one, flip that sentence and it becomes You don’t know these things, ergo you’re not a master of anything let alone Israel!
Now imagine an entire religion based on a misprint and you’ve got…
Evangelical Christianity
That is an inaccurate statement. Since links to source documents have been previously posted, it is difficult to believe that it is an honest mistake. But if you withdraw the comment and apologize, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.
No I ‘ll take my chances with the Church Jesus Founded not a Church Founded by a Protestor to Gods church!Thanks for the Offer..
I would love to hear this... anyone who calls people terrible names for other than doctrinal reasons (aka wolves, false brothers, false teachers, antichrists), are not being good Christians. Mary, just as any virtuous woman, should not be called anything other than that, a virtuous woman. Any less or more honor than Scripture gives her is wrong.
As for the rest of your obviously heated emotional response, I would just rather ask you to respond to the statements that I have made, not to the terrible Protestants that you have run into in the past. There are terrible people on both sides of the Tiber, and I would rather not be put on that roster, and I hope you would feel likewise.
>Now imagine an entire religion based on a misprint and you’ve got…
>Evangelical Christianity
Um...checking my bible, yep it says born again or born from above, both being mentioned in the commentary, but born from above is the better translation.
And yes, this is a difference, but both are speaking of a rebirth of nature, from the old, unregenerate self to a new man with a new heart. Born from above speaks mostly to where the rebirth originates, and I have no problem with it at all, being of the Reformed flavor of Christianity, even tho’ an evangelical.
Now what part of this is earth shattering? Yes, being ‘born again’ is overused in some circles as a catch phrase, but in too many circles people claim Christianity yet have no changes in their lives.
Matthew 7:
15”Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16”You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17”So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18”A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19”Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20”So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21”Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22”Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23”And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
That last bit better make anyone who has the love of God in their hearts tremble and shrink back. Those words are probably the most terrible ever uttered by man, and perhaps by God.
Whore of Babylon... is one used by baptist in West Chester Pa... Pope is the anti Christ... it is so sickening that they would Call Jesus mother those names..
where Y’all supported Abortion in the 1970’s and 1980’s
http://mainstreambaptist.blogspot.com/2006/10/on-southern-baptist-position-on.html
The Link you all asked for...above
Some Key Comments...
To cite my favorite example — and any of you who has heard me speak before has heard this example, so I apologize for that — in 1973 when the infamous decision of Roe v. Wade came down, the Southern Baptist Convention, which is America’s largest evangelical Protestant denomination, endorsed it. That is a remarkable fact that is almost totally neglected given the fact that the Southern Baptist convention sort of embodies everything that we think of when we think about being on the right side of the culture war issues.
But there were a number of reasons why the SBC endorsed Roe v. Wade. One of them was that they knew Catholics were opposed to abortion, and in our country if Catholics are in favor of one thing, the Baptists are always in favor of the opposite.
NOW FOLKS I THOUGHT YOU FOLLOWED THE BIBLE.....doesn’t appear so.... anti Catholic and Political.. What a Theology!
I see that I was in error when I considered giving you the benefit of the doubt. Frankly, you (and the Pope) should be more concerned about pro-abortion bishops than with our business.
Since you must have missed Gamecock’s post 16, here’s a link to the full report:
REPORT OF THE AD INTERIM COMMITTEE ON ABORTION
6th General Assembly, 1978, Appendix O, pages 270 - 281.
http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-015.html
Abortion in distinction from miscarriage, is the intentional killing of an unborn child between conception and birth. The moral question raised in any abortion is whether the life of the unborn child is included in the Biblical teaching respecting the sanctity of life. The special protection God gives to human life is founded upon His making man “in His own image” (Gen. 1:26, 27. All scripture quotations are from the New American Standard Bible). So basic is this to His created order that God declares: “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Gen. 9:6). This protection is then summarized in the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder” (Ex. 20:13; cf. Westminster Shorter Catechism, pp. 68-69, and Westminster Larger Catechism, pp. 135-136, where the requirements and prohibitions of the commandment are set forth).
...
Abortion in distinction from miscarriage, is the intentional killing of an unborn child between conception and birth. The moral question raised in any abortion is whether the life of the unborn child is included in the Biblical teaching respecting the sanctity of life. The special protection God gives to human life is founded upon His making man “in His own image” (Gen. 1:26, 27. All scripture quotations are from the New American Standard Bible). So basic is this to His created order that God declares: “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Gen. 9:6). This protection is then summarized in the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder” (Ex. 20:13; cf. Westminster Shorter Catechism, pp. 68-69, and Westminster Larger Catechism, pp. 135-136, where the requirements and prohibitions of the commandment are set forth).
...
1. That because Scripture clearly affirms the sanctity of human life and condemns its arbitrary destruction, we affirm that the intentional killing of an unborn child between conception and birth, for any reason at any time, is clearly a violation of the Sixth Commandment; Adopted.
Then why did the Baptist support Abortion.. That is a Fact no Matter what you want to Say... The Baptist as a Man Made Organization Made a Call to Support abortiom...
The Catholic Church the Mystical Body of Christ founded by Christ .. never supported Abortion!
If you want to argue with a Baptist, go find a Baptist to argue with.
and that was Gamecock..
When did Gamecock convert to Baptist?
He was talkin Talking on this website as a Calvinist Baptist Last Month!
I am not now, nor have I ever been a Baptist. Have been known to worship at a Baptist church, but not ones that support abortion.
Dated some Baptist gals a long time ago, but they wouldn’t dance.
That Baptist Decree supporting Abortion was 1970-1980’s....
Doesn’t matter. I wasn’t a Baptist then either.
Dated a Baptist gal many decades ago, but she did dance. As far as I know, that was her only vice.
Of course, the liberals were in control of the SBC until the conservatives counterattacked in 1979, so I'm quite sure you can dig up plenty of liberal material from your first decade.
Some SBC resolutions from the 1980s:
1980 - Be it therefore RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention reaffirm the view of the Scriptures of the sacredness and dignity of all human life, born and unborn, and
Be it further RESOLVED, That opposition be expressed toward all policies that allow "abortion on demand," and
Be it further RESOLVED, That we abhor the use of tax money or public, tax-supported medical facilities for selfish, non-therapeutic abortion, and
Be it finally RESOLVED, That we favor appropriate legislation and/or a constitutional amendment prohibiting abortion except to save the life of the mother.
http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=19
From 1982
Be it finally RESOLVED, That we support and will work for appropriate legislation and/or constitutional amendment which will prohibit abortions except to save the physical life of the mother, and that we also support and will work for legislation which will prohibit the practice of infanticide
http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=20
Do you want the ones from 1984, 1987, and 1989?
You'll be hard pressed to come up with anything liberal on abortion after the conservatives consolidated control in the mid 1980s.
lETS bE rEAL.... tHEY DID SUPPORT ABORTION WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.