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To: Truth Defender

Rev. 20:10 says ‘tormented forever and ever,’ at which point the lake of fire has three occupants.

At Rev. 20:14 death itself is abolished. No more death. Everyone is immortal at Rev. 20:14.

Rev. 20:15 shows an increase in the population of the lake of fire - all immortal.


161 posted on 07/18/2008 3:41:35 PM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: Enosh
Rev. 20:10 says ‘tormented forever and ever,’ at which point the lake of fire has three occupants.

Many use this verse as a proof text for the doctrine of endless torment, and not without reason. Having announced the total destruction of Satan's hosts whom he had gathered for one last desperate assault against the saints, John adds: "And the devil which deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Gr., eis tous anionas ton aionon - literally, "unto the ages of the ages"). Does this text settle the matter? One could counter by asking, "Is any doctrine to be settled by one text which on the face of it seems to say exactly what a dogma declares, even though the Scriptures in many, many other places seem to say just as plainly somethng to the contrary?" Is God a god of confusion?
That having been said, I return to the point at issue. Does Rev. 20:10 settle the question concerning the endless torment of the wicked? Insofar as the triumvirate which is named is concerned it seems to certainly do so. But again I have some questions (1) Who is said to be tormented so relentlessly, everyone cast into hell or some obviously deserving characters? (2) Why those three more than others - more so, perhaps than a twelve year old child whose life was snuffed out just short of the commitment of his or her life to Christ? Is future punishment commensurate with one's sin or is everyone punished the same, contrary to the array of deeds done in the body?
Actually, I have no problem accepting Rev. 20:10 at face value, even literally, despite its placement in an apocalyptic frame of reference. But I am still looking for a text which says mere mortals such as we rub elbows with daily are punished to the same degree. Those persons I know who most stoutly insist they so believe rarely, if ever, so behave toward the lost. But man's inconsistencies are not to be the determinate factor in the acceptance or rejection of a doctrine. Nonetheless, I do find myself asking, does any one pay any more than lip-service to the traditional view of eternal punishment?

At Rev. 20:14 death itself is abolished. No more death. Everyone is immortal at Rev. 20:14.
Rev. 20:15 shows an increase in the population of the lake of fire - all immortal.

Let's quote these two verses for a closer look.
(Vs 14) "Then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. (Vs 15) If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Your statement that all are immortal in these two verses is not so. Those whose names are not found in the Lamb's book of life are thrown into the lake of fire - which is their second death. It is only the redeemed that have been given immortality (see I Cor. 15:35-57) Again, it is the unredeemed that will suffer the second death by being thrown into the lake of fire. I haven't the time to list all the multitude of Scriptures that tell us that the unredeemed with suffer "death" as the penalty for sin. Romans 6;23 says that "the wages of sin is death", not "life in hell-fire." Some refer to this as a "living death", but that is self-contradictory: death is the absence of life, plain and simple. Read II Peter 3 and see what he has to say about the destruction of ungodly men and the end of the world.

179 posted on 07/18/2008 6:57:04 PM PDT by Truth Defender (History teaches, if we but listen to it; but no one really listens!)
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