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To: PAR35
In order:

1) Luther, by the way, taught the real presence and something much closer to transubstantiation than most Protestants believe, namely consubstantiation, the belief that Christ’s body and blood are really present in the Eucharist, but so are the bread and wine. Catholics believe the elements are changed; Lutherans believe they are added to.
He recognizes Lutherans' practice - however, such believe does not define the majority of Protestants, does it?

2) Okay, you got me. What do you mean by that? You think people can know of the Resurrection through means other than Scripture?

3) Isn't that exactly what he is saying? As I read it, those confessions say that you can receive grace by the act, as long as you have the required faith. That isn't what Catholics believe.

4) It doesn't? You don't believe that we must choose Christ?

11 posted on 07/15/2008 7:17:01 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: thefrankbaum
1. He does later make a pro-forma reference to Lutheran beliefs, after first tossing all Protestants into the same kettle. There does seem to be a total disconnect between his first statement and the latter one, doesn't there?

2. We are taught, “Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence, do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable”.

You don't need the Scriptures to know that there is a God, and Creation; your own senses tell you that. That is General Revelation.

For Salvation, of course, you need more. That is Special Revelation, and it ordinarily comes from what God has taught us through the Scriptures.

3. God's grace isn't dependent on our will, only on His. It is only AFTER He, by His grace, has quickened us, that we have the capability to respond. (See, in context, Eph 2:1, 2:5, Col 2:13, 1 Peter 2:24)(See also Eph 2:8-10).

4. And you left the easiest for last. No.

Legal disclaimer: these comments do not address his views of Catholicism, but in the spirit of the Ecumenic thread, address only his characterizations of protestant views.

12 posted on 07/15/2008 8:40:41 PM PDT by PAR35
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