Posted on 06/30/2008 6:25:14 PM PDT by Utah Girl
Viewers of tonight's season premiere of "History Detectives" will learn that a book about the horrors of "Female Life Among the Mormons" is a work of fiction.
And the woman who owns the 1856 volume will be "disappointed" by that news.
"History Detectives" (8 p.m., Ch. 7) is a fascinating series in which historical objects are examined to determine if they're authentic. (Tonight's other two segments feature a World War II diary and a coin shot by Annie Oakley.)
In the case of the 1856 book about the horrors of Mormon polygamy, Marcie Waterman Murray of Stanfordville, N.Y., bought it at an auction and wants to know who wrote it. (There's no author listed.)
"I was very moved by this book. It really stayed with me a long time. I've become fascinated with it," Murray says.
What stayed with her is a barbaric account, written in the first person, of a young woman who married a Mormon elder in New York and traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. She suffered the "abominations" of polygamy and the "degradation it imposes on females."
That includes one account of a misbehaving wife who was stripped nude, tied to a tree and whipped until "blood ran to the ground."
Enter Tukufu Zuberi from "History Detectives."
"You don't know if this is a real book. You don't know if it's really from the 19th century. You don't know what it is," Zuberi said in a phone interview with the Deseret News. "But it is a document which definitely offers a skewed view toward marriage among Mormons.
"It puts (women) on the level of being slaves. You can take it as something that's either laughable, looking at it today, or something that really provided fuel for those who were anti-Mormon back in the 19th century."
Without detailing the entire episode, Zuberi quickly discovers that this is not a genuine history. Among other things, it purports to tell the story of Joseph Smith's death and gets it flat-out wrong.
And the show's conclusions are clear. "It seems that our book is little more than pulp fiction, and shot through with historical errors," Zuberi says in the show.
The segment briefly outlines 19th-century LDS history, including the effort to demonize Mormons.
"Someone could write it today in order to kind of speak badly of the Mormons," Zuberi said. "Someone could've written it then to speak badly of the Mormons. And that's our task — to find out."
He does his best to track down the author, including using "some high-tech stuff to determine who wrote the book and determine the authenticity or lack thereof."
"This one I was surprised by. The Mormon story has a lot of twists and turns."
In 21st-century Utah, "Female Life Among the Mormons" seems silly, even campy. But, obviously, the book's owner thought — perhaps hoped — it was genuine.
Upon learning that it's fiction, she gasps and says, "I'm actually a little disappointed. But I'm glad to know the truth."
But it certainly seemed as if she would've been more glad if Mormon women really had been tied to trees and whipped.
With a tag line like that, I've got to figure there's something going on in between your ears. He would be a great Pres. but we may have to get through the BHO years first.
“To be “hoist by [or with] your own petard” is to be blown up by your own bomb. A petard was a medieval engine of war consisting originally of a bell-shaped metal container filled with explosives. It was used to blow in a door or a gate or breach a wall. Premature explosion was an ever-present danger. In other words, you could be hoist by your own petard. But what is also interesting is the derivation of the word “petard”. It comes from the French word peter, meaning to break wind.”
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I was a BB Stacker in the Air Force and I had to blow up old ordnances from time to time, but nothing as old as a petard.
But I will say that a pallet of old 500 lb GP bombs sure does break a lot of wind.
Lordy, but I’d like to see that!
From a nice distance, of course.
those scriptures form the basis for how I know I am. Go back and re-read them as necessary
Cheiko Okazaki of the Relief Society general presidency gave the powerful concluding talk of the 1993 conference, “Grace and Glory: Strength from Our Savior” (1994: 241-52). Christ is not like a man waiting on the shore with a life preserver on a rope, calling that he will save us after all that we can do . Christ is the master of wind and wave, yet “he is in the water with us, feeling the batterings of the same current. He lends us strength so we can try. He gives us his vision so that we can see the shore.... It may be true that we can always do more—but not because we have no limits. It’s because he has none” (1994: 249).
When we understand the willingness of the Lord to be with us and sustain us in the particular circumstances of our own lives, assures Ardeth Kapp, “our service becomes customized by the Spirit” (1991: 34-35). Cecile Pelous, who balances a job as a fashion designer with work among disadvantaged children in India and Nepal, affirms that in the hands of the Lord “I have been able to do much more than I thought possible. I see that what I accomplish is a part of the work of the Lord and that I am his instrument. He guides me and opens doors for me, sometimes in unforeseen ways” (1993: 15).
Reviews, BYU Studies, vol. 35 (1995), Number 2—1995 .)
What is the matter - can’t answer to mormon teachings? If what is posted is mistaken - then I expect you to provide the correct sourced teaching from mormonism. Your failure to do so is not an excuse for me to do your homework for your.
We have several stars on the horizon, Sarah Palin, Mark Sanford, Jindal. I am optimistic, but fear we will have row to hoe reminiscent of the Carter years before the folks get serious and the wayward come home again. There will be nits to pick over any of these folks, but if things get as bad as I fear, that time will pass much more rapidly, and the time for single issues and vanity candidates will have ended.
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Since you wrote it, I thought you had the right to show the difference between real LDS writings and the bad summaries and comments you added.
Remember, this is what I said:
“It is hard to separate your comments from the comments of God's servants that you quoted from. And I already know the difference.
Please go back and highlight your summaries and comments, so those who do not already know our teachings can tell the difference of our teachings compared to your mistaken summaries.”
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those scriptures form the basis for how I know I am. Go back and re-read them as necessary
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I think this means you have no confirmation that you are one of the elect. I think it means you only hope God wants you.
From the lovely piece of 19th century fiction....
The principle of spiritual welfare is no different. As we demonstrate our good faith by doing all that we can and consecrating all our own resources to the common purpose, the grace of God and the atonement of Christ are sufficient to meet all our other needs, but the covenant still demands our best efforts, assumes progress will be made, and aims at eventually making us self-sufficient as far as righteousness is concerned.
Sigh, not one piece of bible reference your bicycle dude has offered to support this. The bible refutes his feel good about his prideful works.
The following is a list of verses about being saved by faith. Please take note that faith and works are contrasted. In other words, we are saved by faith "not by works" and "apart from works", etc. The point is that there are only two options. We are saved by faith alone or we are not. Since we have faith and works (both conceptually and in practice), then we are either saved by faith alone or by faith and works. There is no other option.
If we see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about faith and works. Then, afterwards, we will tackle James' statement about "faith alone".
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
(For more go here - http://www.carm.org/catholic/faithalone.htm)
So I ask again. Have you done “all” you can do for salvation?. Your earlier silence is very loud.
Sorry but this says completely opposite to the bom - 'It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do' (2 Ne. 25:23)
If those comments are bad - then expose them from mormon doctrine, otherwise this is just whining on your part, and lazy too.
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I mis read what you said, and when I studied it again I saw I was wrong about what you were saying.
You were talking about his wind, not mine.
Please forgive me.
fred
We know we are saved not because God elected or picked and choose us, or decided we met some check list for approval and entry into the kingdom. We know for his gift is offered to all men regardless of their faith. It is us who elect him by accepting that gift, therefore we know we are "chosen" because we knocked on the door and were invited in, we ourselves made the choice.
Once again, I have God's promises to me, as presented in the Bible
2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
I know the tomb is empty - backing up all the promises of Christ's words. I know if I were to die tonight I would be in the presence of the Lord. Have you done “all” you can do for salvation?
It is the very Promise of Jesus that is the proof of your Salvation in Him. Faith places the believer in an absolutely irrefutable position of trusting in His Promise. Now, some want to seek an escape clause, to make the contract based on His Promise to be shaky, shaky enough to insert the heresies of men like Joseph Smith and Bringham Young. But my assurance of being Saved by His Grace is founded in trusting His Promise to do so because I trust in Him. Sounds circular, don’tchaknow. And it is! He has completed the circle and I had but to step inside of it and be surrounded by the Promise of He Who cannot lie and will not cancel His Promises. I am assured of His Deliverance for me because I trust in His Promise to do so. Period.
Spot on! I listed 12 scripture verses that make it clear - it is grace, not works. What is being sought after is the warm, fuzzy burner, which is a purely subjective standard, but the only one they are willing to accept- because the alternative is too destructive to them.
Romans 15: 10-17 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 ¶ Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
There is an empty tomb that is the guarantee of my salvation. And I will not argue the conditions the Resurrected One placed upon us for that salvation. It applied to the thief on the cross, it applies to me and you too.
At Christmas I celebrate the Gift that God gave to the world, his Son. Focusing on the word gift alone is key, here. There is nothing I did to earn the Gift, it was given freely to me. And when I reached out my hand to take it, it became mine, forever.
I guess I’m not rally a calvinist cause I just can’t swallow the predestination deal. BUT ...
Everywhere I go I find people who will never accept God’s free offer. They are not capable of it. It’s not that they have made a conscious choice. Most of them will hand you some gobbldygook about this and that and the other religious clap trap ... but they aren’t saved and aren’t going to get saved. It’s just as plain as the nose on their faces.
Then there’s me. I needed God from day one. It took me 27 years to make my final decision but it was a done deal from way back. I find this to be true of most saved people. They were on that track from early on.
It sure feels like somebody chose me before I chose Him.
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