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To: verga
Do you have this verse in your Bible?

1Pe 3:21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

No, I don't...Where'd you get a perversion like that???

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Were you saved by water like Noah??? Noah got saved by NOT GETTING WET...The people that got immersed in the water all died...

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The like figure, or, the picture...Baptism is a 'picture' or 'figure' of your Salvation that is 'like' the account of Noah and his family being saved...And if Baptism is a 'figure', it is not the real thing...It is like the real thing...The real thing was Noah being saved by NOT falling into the water...

Baptism give a figure of what happened to us at Salvation...The figure is like what happened to Noah...

Did Noah get baptized??? NO...Did Noah get sprinkled??? NO...Did he get immersed??? No...Noah didn't even get wet...

Baptism pictures death, burial and resurrection (Rom 6:1-4)... A person who is not already a Christian can not be a partaker in the baptism...Therefore you can't get saved by baptism...

(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)

No unsaved man has a 'good conscience, to answer...

Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Or this one: Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Dang those pesky facts

I'll let you know if I see one...

The next verse is a continuation of that verse

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So what did Jesus teach them that they are to do??? Do you know???

Footwashing, healing the sick, cleansing lepers, raising the dead, NOT taking up an offering, going to Israel only, keeping the Sabbath, abstaining from eating pork, no haircuts, no shaves, and everything in the Sermon on the Mount...

Does this sound like your Catholic church??? Do you observe all things that Jesus commanded??? NO??? Why not???

Did the disciples go to all nations to preach??? NO??? They stayed in Jerusalem??? Why's that??? And Peter, James and John wind up preaching to Jews only, not all the nations??? Why's that???

And Peter baptized in the name of Jesus...Not the Trinity...Why's that??? Do you know??? Do you know anything about any of the scripture you are quoting???

62 posted on 06/29/2008 12:40:45 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool; FatherofFive
I like your plan, you can't discuss the issues so you use a B@st@rd version of the Bible and the shotgun approach hoping something will stick.

Lets use the origninal Greek 1Pe 3:21 sw tbao tsakai tshmav aumav antitupon nun bkai bhmav swzei baptisma ou sarkov apoqesiv rupou alla suneidhsewv agaqhv eperwthma eiv qeon di anastasewv ihsou xristou

Yeah that pretty much settles it Baptism does save you.

That is the really great thing about those two semesters of Greek I had at the graduate level, while working on a Masters degree in Theology, it lets you spot errors in translation and logic.

Since I have proved you wrong in this translation we can assume that the rest of your post is just as wrong.

Thanks for playing I am certain that there are some lovely parting gifts for you.

Buh-Bye

63 posted on 06/29/2008 1:45:49 PM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Iscool
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The like figure, or, the picture...Baptism is a 'picture' or 'figure' of your Salvation that is 'like' the account of Noah and his family being saved...And if Baptism is a 'figure', it is not the real thing...It is like the real thing...The real thing was Noah being saved by NOT falling into the water...

O please tell me you're not serious. Maybe you can have a mod delete that before too many read it.

Oh good grief, that's ridiculous.

Is that what "dime store bibles" are like?

Here's actual Scripture:

1Pe 3:20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but, the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

65 posted on 06/29/2008 2:20:45 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool; verga; FatherofFive
Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

So what did Jesus teach them that they are to do??? Do you know???
Well, St. Paul tells us of this:
1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread,
1Co 11:24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me.
1Co 11:25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood. This do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.
1Co 11:27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
Here's another command of Christ, to St. Peter:
Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
And another, to all of His Disciples there gathered:
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.

67 posted on 06/29/2008 2:36:01 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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