Replies

Thanks for the head-up.

I suppose that--despite my indication that I did not care to argue this point with you and your seeming agreement--nevertheless when you saw this post (perhaps you and NYer conspired to post it just now in light of Friday's discussion) you felt duty-bound to bring it to my attention in case either I was interested or the Holy Spirit wished to edify me. I hope I am always ready to receive what He has for me; anyway, I did read through it. I notice that you did not argue it personally, substituting others' arguments; I refrain from referring you to others' counterarguments.

My position remains unchanged that I do not now find it compelling to debate this with you, despite this latest provocation, beyond again affirming that I find the arguments presented to be (I shall be charitable and avoid the apt term "ludicrous") unconvincing.

However, having been thus provoked, I do take this nonargumentative liberty of asking whether you (as representing Catholics in general, if I may so dress you for this purpose) feel even any hint of discomfort at your too-lofty perch. That is, to overgeneralize, arrogating to oneself the position and role of sole avenue for salvation (again, I overgeneralize), does it not make you a bit queasy that you join thereby Satan and his prideful attempt to match God and the Pharisees' to essentially do the same? I am not suggesting anything Satanic or Pharisaic, I am pointing out the similarity of your positions: essentially, usurping God's role. You know well what happened to them. I am not suggesting a similar fate for you, I hasten to add--I believe that Catholics can be saved, even as I believe that some Protestants will not be, salvation not depending on the church but rather on the heart. But the history of those who claim they own the ball has not been to win the championship. I know, I know, the keys of the kingdom, etc., etc. As I say, I am not arguing the point. I am asking the human question: does it seem at all risky to you? Tenuous? Pretentious? Does it ever give you any pause? Should it? Just asking.

One reason I ask is that I saw that pride in my father when he converted to Catholicism late in life. He dealt with it very imperfectly, and I trust you now enough to ask, if you would be so good, whether that concerns you. One of my reasons for asking you of all people is your own experience with your wife's conversion--you would know.

NOTE TO BYSTANDERS: This is a personal question just for annalex, based on our existing relationship. I am completely uninterested in anything anyone else might care to say, so please save it.

does it seem at all risky to you? Tenuous? Pretentious? Does it ever give you any pause? Should it? Just asking.

There is no usurpation. The only Savior I know is Jesus Christ and He set up one Catholic Church as the vessel of universal salvation. I know that from the scripture: in Matthew 16:18-20 Christ promised that He will build His Church for the express purpoes of opening the Heavenly Kindgom; in Acts 2:38 St. Peter urged all to come to repentance and be baptised in my Church; in 1 Peter 3:21 St. Peter directly links baptism to salvation, and it is one baptism that we believe in not several (1 Cor 12:13).

I know that many prefer to inject some allegorical sense in these verses and speak of some hypothetical invisible universal church of which the Catholic Church is but a part. But nowhere in the Holy Scripture do we see this notion supported, and in 1 Corinthians 1:10 St. Paul directly teaches that whatever distinctions exist, they should not amount to any whatsoever doctrinal disunity.

Others say that the Scripture does not describe the Catholic Church at all, not even as a part of some whole, because the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church, and the hierarchical clerical structure are not defined with precision in the Scripture. To this I say that surely the essential part of every sacrament is described in the Scripture; the primacy of Peter is described, apostolic succession of bishops is described; on the other hand it is not realistic to expect the same trappings of power and glory that we see in modern Catholic Church of a billion people, in the underground nascent Church of 1c. As far as one wishes to go in history, the writings of the Fathers of the Church describe a church that I instantly recognize as the Catholic Church I know today.

We are divided today, to be sure -- we have our separated "second lung" our beloved sister Orthodox Church that despite centuries of separation retained her original Catholic character (or is it that we retained her Orthodox character?), apostolic succession and salvific power of God.

Pride is a great sin at the root of which is denial of God. To proclaim the Gospel and to obey it as written, howbeit proudly or loudly is not a sin, it is a commandment. "He that shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him the Son of man shall be ashamed, when he shall come in his majesty, and that of his Father, and of the holy angels"; "preach ye upon the housetops".

Your father converted to Catholicism and he dealt with it, you say, "imperfectly". Well... so did every saint except Our Lady. Ask for his prayers.