Posted on 06/23/2008 11:50:10 AM PDT by Terriergal
CHARITY: Even some Pentecostals are skeptical of Todd Bentley’s tent revival | Rusty Leonard and Warren Cole Smith
Canadian Todd Bentley doesn't look much like a minister. The 32-year-old has body piercings and tattoos on his arms and neck, and he often dresses in black.
But a minister of the gospel he is, or claims to be—and those claims have become the real story of a series of meetings Bentley is holding in Lakeland, Fla.
Bentley's British Columbia-based Fresh Fire Ministries arrived in Lakeland on April 2 for five days of revival meetings at a local church. These services would be broadcast on God TV, a satellite network with a worldwide viewership.
The services were different in another way, Bentley claims: God showed up in a powerful way. A New York public relations firm was quickly hired to send out press releases claiming "documented healings," and God TV relentlessly plugged its broadcasts of the services.
The services, now held in a huge air-conditioned tent, have gone on for months now, and as many as 10,000 people a night are coming. Bentley claims hundreds of people have been healed of everything from deafness to infertility—though he did admit that in the latter case we wouldn't know for sure until the women actually got pregnant. As for the other cases, WORLD made repeated requests for documentation of healings, but claims of "privacy issues" were the only response.
A visit to one of Bentley's services suggests that he is learning how to turn the big crowds into big money. ATM machines have been set up, providing attendees with ready cash for the offering plate and book purchases. The offering is now a significant part of the service, taking as long as 30 minutes. Bentley has not released financial information, saying he is "too busy keeping up with what God is doing" to pull the information together.
More than 150,000 people have attended the meetings, and at least 1.2 million more (according to God TV estimates) have watched on television. Even accepting Fresh Fire's estimate of an average donation of $3 to $5 per person, it's easy to see how donations could end up in the millions. Christian critics wonder if Bentley's theology can be reconciled with Scripture. Michael Horton's book, The Agony of Deceit, documents fraud among televangelists. He told WORLD, "I have not yet encountered a 'faith healer' who failed to preach a different gospel than the one that we find clearly presented in the New Testament."
Even those sympathetic to Pentecostal theology are apprehensive. Mark Balmer, pastor of the 8,000-person Calvary Church in nearby Melbourne, Fla., received so many questions about Bentley that he spoke out. He told WORLD he believes "in all the gifts for today, including healing." He also asserted: "We are not heresy hunters." He nonetheless told his congregation "not to attend any of this counterfeit revival."
Charisma magazine is normally a cheerleader for Pentecostal preachers, but editor Lee Grady told WORLD: "Charismatic and Pentecostal leaders are divided over its legitimacy." Grady said a "council of national-level leaders" convened by C. Peter Wagner, president of Global Harvest Ministries and former professor of church growth at Fuller Theological Seminary, will address these concerns in a meeting later this summer. Until then, though, crowds remain strong, and Bentley said he got a "word from God" to keep the services—and the book sales—going through at least the end of June.
—with reporting by Mike Kuckel in Lakeland, Fla.
Okay, you keep your little god locked up inside your NAS, my bad. And you trash the part of the body that is bringing millions and millions of people to Jesus while never telling us just what type of ministry is acceptable to your standard.
In case you didn’t notice the church is exploding around the world. Not the God is doesn’t move in signs and wonders any more because we have the Word church, but the one that comes doing greater things just like Jesus said they would. I’ll pray for you brother that the Holy Spirit will touch you in power and in might so that you can understand what you willfully dismiss. May God have mercy on you speaking against what He is doing in these end times, however great your ignorance.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Oh, please. John the Baptist neither ate or drank, but they said he had a demon. Jesus ate and drank, and they called him a glutton and a drunkard. Jesus and his buddies (and his mom) were invited to the best parties, where lots of rich people drank lots of wine and got really drunk. They gleaned on the Sabbath. They didn’t mikveh obsessively. Today they might even have tattoos and piercings. I think Peter and Paul called themselves followers of the Way. Tell me how you can look into this man’s heart and judge that he is not. Tell me what abomination he commits.
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
I’ve not said one word about Bentley’s grotesque appearance as a measure of his godliness, so I will not respond to that issue.
Bentley’s approach, history, and associations all reflect an apostate theology of dominionism, kingdom-now, transferable anointings, hyper fascination with miracles without testing them, uncontrolled and animal-like behaviors, familiar spirits masquerading as angels, and lack of sound biblical doctrine ALL sum up an apostate false teacher.
Have you looked at the videos? Can you reconcile his speech and behavior with the Bible? I cannot.
If he were following Jesus, he would not BECOME a freak. Freak applies here, because Bentley chose to have tattoos and body piercings AFTER he was saved, not before. And some of the tattoos have satanic meanings. He is a freak in the worst sense of the word.
Hmmm.
Jesus mother and brothers thought he was nuts and was embarassed for him to be seen in public, so let’s agree appearances can be deceiving.
Dominionism? When you love the Lord God with all your mind, heart and flesh, and your neighbor as yourself, what is wrong with that being shown in every way that you govern your state or country? How can you not believe in such a personal relationship with God that He will direct your every step, and thereby be glorified in everything you do? I feel sorry for those whose relationships with Our Father is so poor they can’t see this as a real, tangible goal.
Kingdom Now? Jesus said His Kingdom was near. Was He a liar? Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belonged (present tense) to the poor in spirit and those persecuted for the sake of righteousness. Was He mistaken? Do you think God answers every prayer except the one His Son taught us? Have we prayed in vain for 2000 years that His will be done here as it is in Heaven? When Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, was He simply teaching them about something that they would never see, nor their children, nor their grandchildren? What was advancing since the days of John the Baptist until the day of Jesus? Didn’t Jesus drive out demons and declare that His Father’s kingdom was upon us? Did Jesus give us the keys to a time lock that won’t work?
As for “transferable anointings,” if you agree that God’s Word applies to everyone who hears it, there can be no debate that the whole concept of apostolic succession is simply a rule taught by men.
“Testing” miracles. Tell me, did Jesus go to the centurion’s house? In which book of the Bible do we read the follow-up histories of the blind man, the bleeding woman? Oh, I forgot, the man possessed by legion - how do we know it was a miracle that “took” - because the next time Jesus showed up in the Decapolis, a crowd of believers met Him. By that measure, Bentley is doing pretty good at 10K a pop.
Please, give Him a break and let Jesus down off the cross. Are you sure you aren’t just walking to Emmaus? Aren’t your ears burning? Let the Son open your mind and you will understand the Scriptures.
Brothers and Sisters, I encourage you - believe in the resurrected Christ who serves us breakfast, not the one abandoned on a tree waiting for rescue. Believe in the Christ who empowers us through His Holy Spirit to access, by faith, the grace to make His Father’s kingdom come. Now. Believe in the Christ who empowers us to do greater things than He did.
His mother and His brothers, the Pharisees and teachers of the law all thought Jesus was a freak. Doesn’t it scare the c*** out of you to think that what Jesus said was the one unforgiveable sin was calling something from the devil that was really from Him? Gather with Him. Bring good things out of the good stored up in you.
I don’t know about Bentley’s satanic tattoos - have you seen them? Have you asked him why he has them?
Yes, I have seen the tattoos. No, I have no desire to be anywhere near the weirdo. He preaches entire sermons without even a single reference to a Scripture. What’s up with that?
Neat trick to talk about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and healing and not be referring to the Bible. You must be pretty familiar with the Scriptures to know that he doesn’t refer to them. I’d have to see a transcript, but are you sure he doesn’t refer to them? Or is it just not by chapter and verse?
OK, finally saw the video. Wow. Are you kidding? You have a problem with this? I guess you have never been drunk at all, much less in the Spirit. Remind me not to pray in tongues around you.
Jesus let a bleeding woman touch Him. Jesus approached and probably touched dead bodies. Jesus spoke to and loved adulterers and Gentiles. For God’s sake, he let a prostitute wash His feet with her hair!
And you got a problem with “Bob”?
Man, what Bible are you reading?
Whitewashed tombs, indeed. In love.
Bentley ain’t Jesus. Jesus performed miracles to fulfill prophecy and validate His identity to the Jews.
The Bible does NOT tell anyone to get drunk in the Spirit - which is not even possible. The Spirit of God is about self control - contrasted with being drunk on much wine. People such as Bentley who think Christians are to be “drunk in the Spirit” are either biblically illiterate or deceived.
Don’t pray in Tongues around ANYONE unless there’s an interpretor.
What does your second paragraph - telling me some of what Christ did - have to do with Bentley?
Do I have a problem with “Bob” - do you mean Bob Jones the false prophet or Bob from the Bill Murray movie, “What About Bob?”
False prophets have been around for eons. They have and will continue to deceive many. We who are in Christ are called to be on guard, be sober, live quiet lives, proclaim the gospel. Seeking after signs is a sign of disbelief. Same as when Christ walked the Earth.
Love does not mean accepting false or even misguided teachers. Love is to cling to and obey Christ. As far as I am from being perfect in my walk with the Lord, I thank Him that I am not deceived into thinking Bentley, Hinn, Copeland, DuPlantis, et al are Biblical teachers.
Bravo for that post...
We are called to be imitators of Christ. Christ fed the poor, healed the sick, raised the dead, and cleansed lepers to glorify God. We are called to do the same.
The Bible says that when the Holy Spirit came during Pentecost those who did not receive it thought those that did were drunk. How do you know you are not making the same mistake? I am not saying you should be, but that you can be. How does the Holy Spirit manifest itself in your life?
I pray in the Spirit around myself and in the presence of God - does that count as praying around “ANYONE”? Someone listening might think I was drunk, and no one understands what I say. That’s why I pay attention to Paul, and seek after prophetic gifting. Do you?
I told you about those things that Christ did because they were shocking to the people of His time. Many rejected Him because He did them. They were the tattoos and piercings of His generation.
Quiet lives? Not Moses. Not John. Not our Savior. Not Paul. Not Stephen. I am just trying to be like the examples the Bible sets before me.
You can pull examples out of context and “defend” unbiblical practices that please the flesh all you wish. I am weary of trying to explain why Bentley’s ministry of not of God, but it’s not a reasonable use of my time when one is sold on the notion that Bob Jones is a man of God. Good grief.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/681-todd-bentley-fresh-fire-ministries
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/todd-bentley-prophesying-bad-cold-reading/
http://www.apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS/bentley.htm
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/05/todd-bentley-th.html
From http://www.apologeticsindex.org/j00.html#jones
Jones, Bob
One of the Kansas City Prophets. Seen by some as the most controversial of the Kansas City Prophets. Was removed from the Vineyard Anaheim because of sexual improprieties, which consisted of encouraging women to undress in his office so they could stand “naked before the Lord” in order to receive a “word.” Still active today, with the abundant support of Rick Joyner. Jones is a major proponent of Latter Rain and Manifest Sons theology.
If you want to follow these men and their teaching, soldier on. It’s a flesh pleasing, demonic, wide path to perdition.
Since the title of this thread is “Same Old Scam?”, I thought it would be helpful to remind people of what the “old scams” were:
http://intotruth.org/kcp/kcp-roots.html
http://intotruth.org/kcp/kcp-metro1.htm
http://intotruth.org/kcp/kcp-gruen.html
http://www.intotruth.org/brn/pensacol.html
Funny thing - I’m reading a biography of George Whitefield. He lived in the 17th century, contemporary of the Wesley brothers. There were Christian refugees from France that called themselves prophets who were chasing experience over knowledge and exhibited the same shaking, animal noise, “slain in the spirit” none sense as these 20th and 21st century false prophets do.
Nothing new under the sun.
I agree. Too much emphasis has been placed on Bentley’s outward man and his antics. Either the move is or isn’t of God, period. I’d imagine that no one would covet John the Baptist’s diet or wardrobe, yet he was indeed a forerunner of Christ. Bentley is loose, wild and unscriptural—yet none of these things make him false in itself. Sounds to me that he will have to go under some tough discipline lest the entire movement loses credibility.
Also if the move is indeed of God, it will not go uncontested. Seducing spirits will invade a move of God and try to make it shipwreck. This is not a laughing matter, but one that needs intense intercession and sobriety. For a great read check out “A Step Into Deliverance” by T. Pugh. It’s a riveting autobiography about one pastor’s battle with the spirit of Jezebel.
You’re right. If the move is of God, it will not go uncontested. Spirits of fanaticism and delusion will invade a meeting in an instant and try to throw the true move of God in disarray. Intercession is paramount. Sobriety is necessary, too. Slackness in any of these will give satan an open door.
For a great read check out “A Step Into Deliverance” by T. Pugh. It’s a riveting autobiography on deliverance.
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