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To: NYer
Sorry, NY, but the mark of a True Believer is that they DO persevere. Those who persevere were and those who don't weren't.

1 John 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

12 posted on 06/17/2008 10:12:08 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: xzins
1 John 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.

Are you referring to a specific verse? What document are you quoting from?

15 posted on 06/17/2008 10:41:46 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: xzins; NYer
the mark of a True Believer is that they DO persevere

Of course, -- but they do so not merely because they have an intellectual assent to the Gospel but because having believed in the Gospel, they also make a conscious free-will effort to obey it in their works, and seek absolution from the Church when they fall. We are not saved by faith alone, the Holy Scripture teaches.

17 posted on 06/17/2008 11:23:28 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: xzins

1 John 3:9 and the passages surrounding it refer to habitual sin. The Greek is properly understood to mean “continuing in sin.” Even protestant commentaries recognize this. For example:

Gray’s Home Bible Commentary says this about the passage in question.

“Others interpret the word “commit” in the sense of practice (compare Galatians 5:21), (Revised Version). It is one thing to fall temporarily into sin as a consequence of sudden temptation, and another thing to practice it, i.e., to live in continual transgression. This no regenerated man does. The teaching of this verse should be balanced with that of 1:8, where the apostle is speaking to the same persons as in the present instance.”

The cited verse [1:8] for balance says:

“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

Verse 9 goes on to say, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

All of this is in keeping with Catholic teaching.

If we take 1 John 3 in an over literal sense we get big problems. Verse 6 “No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him.” Does that mean everyone who is in Christ doesn’t sin any longer? No.

Verses 9-10 “No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. So...everyone who is of God doesn’t sin?

10 “In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.”

Notice in verse 10 it is those who “act in righteousness” that belong to God vs anyone “who does not love [act in righteousness] his brother.”

In verse 11-12 “For this is the message you have heard from the beginning: we should love one another,
12 unlike Cain who belonged to the evil one and slaughtered his brother.

Why did he slaughter him? Because his own works were evil, and those of his brother righteous. Cain as Able had the free choice of obedience vs grave sin (found in 1 John chapter 5). But notice Cain chose evil by his works and Able chose righteousness by his works. We also even after we have been given sanctifying grace, can choose by our works [actions or obedience] evil or love for baptism is our initial justification and salvation is a process.

“Salvation has many components:
1. saved by grace – Rom. 3:23,24; Titus 2:11; Eph 2:5,8
2. saved by faith – Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8; I Peter 1:9
3. saved by confession – Rom. 10:10; I John 1:9; James 5:16
4. saved by repentance – Luke 13:3; II Cor. 7:10; II Peter 3:9
5. saved by baptism – Mark 16:16; John 3:5; I Peter 3:21
6. saved by the Holy Ghost – John 3:5; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 1:13,14
7. saved by endurance – II Tim. 2:10; James 1:12; Heb. 3:6

Salvation is a process:
1. we have been saved, “According to his mercy he saved us” (Titus 3:5), and “{God} has saved us and called us to a holy life” (2 Tim 1:9),
2. we are being saved, “For by grace are ye saved” (Eph 2:8), and “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phi 2:12),
3. we shall be saved, “much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life” (Rom 5:10) and “Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” (I Tim 4:16).
God only gives this final salvation if we continue in him (Rom 11:22; Col 1:23; I John 2:24,25).”
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/process.htm


40 posted on 06/17/2008 6:30:13 PM PDT by chase19
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