Coronation of the Virgin
Fra Angelico
1434-35
Tempera on panel, 213 x 211 cm
Musée du Louvre, Paris
Posted on 06/17/2008 7:55:24 AM PDT by NYer
When I was in law school, I had a classmate named Barry (not his real name). At the time, I was not practicing the faith and by no means was a paragon of virtuous living. Despite my own low standards, I thought Barry’s carousing lifestyle crossed the bounds of propriety. He even confided to me that while he was home one weekend he made his girlfriend procure an abortion, because he was not willing to take responsibility for his actions.
One day, months later, Barry out of the blue told me, “It’s time for a revival.” It was only then that I learned that he was a part-time preacher who from time to time would go barnstorming through Missouri and Arkansas, inviting people to become “saved.”
I was shocked. I admitted that I had no room to talk, since in my estimation I was no longer a Catholic or even a Christian. Even so, the disparity between Barry’s faith and his ongoing debauchery confused and scandalized me. He eventually explained that I had to learn to separate faith from daily life. I told him–with less refinement and charity than I’d use today–what I thought of a religion I could test drive but not take home. My burning intuition was that a religion that did not affect who I was and how I lived was not worth my time.
An analogous situation arises today in the context of funerals. As many of us know, the dominant mindset is that the deceased is “in a better place,” and thus the funeral rite itself becomes nothing other than a mini-canonization.
Assuredly we entrust the deceased to the mercy of God, who alone judges hearts. We also must console those who are mourning, offering them solid grounds for hope that their departed loved one is indeed with the Lord. In this regard, it is entirely fitting to recall the good deeds and accomplishments of the deceased to buoy our hope in his or her resurrection.
Yet the current trend goes even further. Our contemporaries assume the deceased is in heaven, so the only real concern is helping friends and family cope with the temporal loss. This approach effectively does away with the need to pray and offer sacrifice for the deceased, which Scripture describes as a “very excellent and noble” practice (cf. 2 Mac. 12:43; Catechism, no. 1032). It also derails a teachable moment: The reality of death affords all of us the opportunity to consider our own mortality and thus seek to be in right relationship with God. An objective observer at many funerals today could easily conclude that it really doesn’t matter how one lives, because everyone’s eternal fate seems to be the same.
Both my encounter with Barry and the experience at many funerals today reflect the error of presumption, which takes many forms (cf. Catechism, no. 2092). One form of presumption is the timeless heresy of Pelagianism, which holds that happiness is attainable by merely human effort, without the necessity of grace. This is manifested today by those who place all their hope in technological progress. Another example of presumption, commonly seen at funerals, is the attitude that in the end God will forgive us irrespective of our cooperation with grace. Following this view, heaven is the inevitable and more or less universal sequel to this life.
Christian fundamentalism is yet another form of presumption. Granted, Barry’s case is an extreme example of the “once saved, always saved” mentality. Most Bible Christians would be aghast at Barry’s lifestyle. Further, they rightly affirm in the midst of our largely secular and indifferent society the centrality of our faith in Jesus Christ (cf. Acts 4:12; 1 Cor. 3:11). Even so, the necessity of a “born again” experience is often explained in a way that leaves no room for human freedom. Once “saved,” the individual can’t “lose” his salvation, even through mortal sin. (Click here for CUF’s FAITH FACT entitled “Persevering to the End: The Biblical Reality of Mortal Sin.”)
“When will I come to the end of my pilgrimage, and enter the presence of God?” This antiphon, taken from Monday Morning Prayer, Week II in the Liturgy of the Hours, summarizes the proper attitude of the Christian in this life. This attitude can be summed up in one word: hope.
“The irony here is that the Rosary embeds the profession of Christian faith, which, according to the Evangelical belief is alone sufficient for salvation. Yet, the Rosary is “waste of time” and “affront”.”
Exactly!
“This is an “ecumenical” thread. Antagonism is not allowed.”
Thanks.
“I have taken charge of my own soul and whether or not I am saved isn’t up to interpretation by the Catholic authorities or any other Church for that matter. I have a personal relationship between myself and Jesus Christ and no one, especially a mere mortal (of which the Pope is included), can tell me that won’t get me to my heavenly reward.
Anyone up for a round of Kumbaya? ; )”
Faith alone is the doctrine that sin cannot separate us from God. Faith alone is the doctrine that we cannot lose our salvation, by committing sin. But, if we commit sin, we are no longer free from sin. Then why did Jesus suffer and die to free us from sin, if it makes no difference if we sin?
Faith alone means Jesus died for nothing.
Kumbaya
Who said I use faith alone? I also do works (not in fromt of men as commanded), pray and live my life in a way that would please Him. Are you saying that because I don’t submit to the Pope I am somehow not worthy of the salvation the Lord provides? If so, I beg to differ with you on that one.
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya...... I agree with your post. I KNOW I am saved by the Blood of the Lamb. Nobody can take that knowledge away from me. Hallelujah.
We don’t need to get absolution from the Church. We can go right to God through our intercessor Jesus Christ and be cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb.
Prayer for the dead? You sound like a Mormon, LOL. When you’re dead, there’s no more need for prayer. The decisions you made concerning salvation were made before you die.
Do you know anyone that doesn't sin??? Of course you don't...
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
It is impossible for any of us to become sinless in this life...That's why Jesus died...He became OUR sacrifice...He took our sin upon Himself and gave us His righteousness...
Though we sin daily, we are not held accountable...Jesus did not die to free us from sin...He died to free us from the 'penalty' of sin...
Amen, Cvengr.
Amen. They also believe infant baptism is salvific. I fear that may cause some to miss heaven.
No, annalex. Mary has nothing to do with our salvation. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by HIM. We are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, not in or by Mary.
I was thinking the same thing when I read that—protection against heresies.
You don’t NEED to call on anyone else but Christ. Is He not enough? He is your intercessor to the Father. Do you believe that non-Catholics are truly in the Body of Christ because we do not belong to the Catholic church?
When we sin, we go to the Father Himself through our intercessor, Jesus Christ and we repent, ask for God to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Not so hard, eh?
Be a pity if we spent all our prayers on Mary and found out at the Judgement that she never heard us...
I posted these quotes from Calvin on the other thread, but they're applicable here, too, in light of the "veneration" cast upon the creature rather than the Creator...
"All who forsake the word fall into idolatry." (John I)
"Every one of us, even from our mother's womb, is a master craftsman of idols." (Acts II)
"Superstition is always fearful." (Acts II)
"Though all men do not worship the same idols, they are all nevertheless in bondage to idolatry." (Romans)
"The knowledge of the true God alone is sufficient for the abolishing of all idols...All is idolatry which men invent without his word." (Acts II)"Man's mind is like a store of idolatry and superstition; so much so that if a man believes his own mind it is certain that he will forsake God and forge some idol in his own brain."
And my personal favorite...
"Superstition is always cruel." (John I)
“I have taken charge of my own soul and whether or not I am saved isn’t up to interpretation by the Catholic authorities or any other Church for that matter. I have a personal relationship between myself and Jesus Christ and no one, especially a mere mortal (of which the Pope is included), can tell me that won’t get me to my heavenly reward.
Anyone up for a round of Kumbaya? ; )”
Faith alone is the doctrine that sin cannot separate us from God. Faith alone is the doctrine that we cannot lose our salvation, by committing sin. But, if we commit sin, we are no longer free from sin. Then why did Jesus suffer and die to free us from sin, if it makes no difference if we sin?
Faith scan posts and mistakenly thought you wrote alone means Jesus died for nothing.
Oops! I scan a lot and thought you wrote “especially a mere mortal [SIN]” which is why I wrote what I wrote, in fact, I was trying to be gentle and tactful in the way I responded. Looks like I screwed up big time. Apologies ravingnutter - please forgive me?
Kumbaya :)
FYI to all: I’m an RC and also saved by the body and blood of Jesus Christ - how can that be you may ask? Perhaps if you read even a little of my previous biblical references you might gain some insight (unless you also believe they’re “fables”) into what we believe especially the Holy Rosary. My beliefs are not very far from your own - how could it be anyway, right? You do know that 3/4 of the worlds Christians also believe like the RCC, e.g., Orthodox, Traditionalists, Coptics, Chaldeans, Maronites etc.
BTW, can anyone please respond to my previous posts and point out which biblical references are “fables”? I’m on a learning curve and would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
“They also believe infant baptism is salvific. I fear that may cause some to miss heaven.”
Could you please expand on what I’m supposed to believe? I’d like to know more and perhaps explain the why’s...ok?
These are all statements of your opinions. When you make a coherent argument, I will be happy to respond.
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