Good. Here's someone else fleeing from the Holy Rosary:
Battle of Lepanto (Detail)
Andrea Vicentino
1603
Oil on canvas
Palazzo Ducale, Venice
Full View
Posted on 06/17/2008 7:55:24 AM PDT by NYer
When I was in law school, I had a classmate named Barry (not his real name). At the time, I was not practicing the faith and by no means was a paragon of virtuous living. Despite my own low standards, I thought Barry’s carousing lifestyle crossed the bounds of propriety. He even confided to me that while he was home one weekend he made his girlfriend procure an abortion, because he was not willing to take responsibility for his actions.
One day, months later, Barry out of the blue told me, “It’s time for a revival.” It was only then that I learned that he was a part-time preacher who from time to time would go barnstorming through Missouri and Arkansas, inviting people to become “saved.”
I was shocked. I admitted that I had no room to talk, since in my estimation I was no longer a Catholic or even a Christian. Even so, the disparity between Barry’s faith and his ongoing debauchery confused and scandalized me. He eventually explained that I had to learn to separate faith from daily life. I told him–with less refinement and charity than I’d use today–what I thought of a religion I could test drive but not take home. My burning intuition was that a religion that did not affect who I was and how I lived was not worth my time.
An analogous situation arises today in the context of funerals. As many of us know, the dominant mindset is that the deceased is “in a better place,” and thus the funeral rite itself becomes nothing other than a mini-canonization.
Assuredly we entrust the deceased to the mercy of God, who alone judges hearts. We also must console those who are mourning, offering them solid grounds for hope that their departed loved one is indeed with the Lord. In this regard, it is entirely fitting to recall the good deeds and accomplishments of the deceased to buoy our hope in his or her resurrection.
Yet the current trend goes even further. Our contemporaries assume the deceased is in heaven, so the only real concern is helping friends and family cope with the temporal loss. This approach effectively does away with the need to pray and offer sacrifice for the deceased, which Scripture describes as a “very excellent and noble” practice (cf. 2 Mac. 12:43; Catechism, no. 1032). It also derails a teachable moment: The reality of death affords all of us the opportunity to consider our own mortality and thus seek to be in right relationship with God. An objective observer at many funerals today could easily conclude that it really doesn’t matter how one lives, because everyone’s eternal fate seems to be the same.
Both my encounter with Barry and the experience at many funerals today reflect the error of presumption, which takes many forms (cf. Catechism, no. 2092). One form of presumption is the timeless heresy of Pelagianism, which holds that happiness is attainable by merely human effort, without the necessity of grace. This is manifested today by those who place all their hope in technological progress. Another example of presumption, commonly seen at funerals, is the attitude that in the end God will forgive us irrespective of our cooperation with grace. Following this view, heaven is the inevitable and more or less universal sequel to this life.
Christian fundamentalism is yet another form of presumption. Granted, Barry’s case is an extreme example of the “once saved, always saved” mentality. Most Bible Christians would be aghast at Barry’s lifestyle. Further, they rightly affirm in the midst of our largely secular and indifferent society the centrality of our faith in Jesus Christ (cf. Acts 4:12; 1 Cor. 3:11). Even so, the necessity of a “born again” experience is often explained in a way that leaves no room for human freedom. Once “saved,” the individual can’t “lose” his salvation, even through mortal sin. (Click here for CUF’s FAITH FACT entitled “Persevering to the End: The Biblical Reality of Mortal Sin.”)
“When will I come to the end of my pilgrimage, and enter the presence of God?” This antiphon, taken from Monday Morning Prayer, Week II in the Liturgy of the Hours, summarizes the proper attitude of the Christian in this life. This attitude can be summed up in one word: hope.
All prayers to anyone but the Triune God are in error and require repentance.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus... But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." -- Philippeans 4:6-7,19
"Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven." -- Psalm 148:13
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God." -- Isaiah 43:12
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." -- Isaiah 45:22
"To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." -- Romans 16:27 "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
It seems God has been telling us something here for a very long time, something which Rome ignores at its peril.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" -- Exodus 20:4-5 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
As I've said before, "Anna," I don't "fear" the idolatry of Rome because God has proteced me from it. By His merciful grace alone, I flee from it.
I pity the idolatry of Rome. I fear God alone.
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." -- Matthew 10:26-28"Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
Good. Here's someone else fleeing from the Holy Rosary:
I’ve already said it all, annalex. Go ahead and pray for the dead. They won’t know the difference and it ain’t gonna help them.
You believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, His death on the cross, His resurrection and His soon return. You receive Him into your life by your decision that you want Him to be your saviour and the Lord of your life. After conversion, you are baptized, as He commands. This is only a small portion of what goes on, but you can get a general idea. But I’m sure this isn’t unfamiliar territory.
I know. And she can’t answer them even if she did hear them.
Well, if I quote scripture Catholics (certain of them) just say it’s my personal interpretation. So I’m between a rock and a hard place with you.
Here's a thread that expressly deals with scriptural support for the concept of purgatory and prayer for the dead: Explaining Purgatory from a New Testament Perspective [Ecumenical]. If you think it is unscriptural to pray for the dead, tell us why.
“Do you know anyone that doesn’t sin??? Of course you don’t...”
Yes - babies, the mentally retarded, and the senile cannot sin (that is, they are not culpable for their sin). They’re also so easy to love don’t you think?
“You believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, His death on the cross, His resurrection and His soon return.”
It’s part of the celebration of Mass AND the Holy Rosary. We’ve been saying it for many centuries. Baptism we can discuss on another thread. Right now it’s all about Our Blessed Mother who has taken hostile hits here from another poster. It’s why I’d like to explain exactly what we do when we recite the it so next time s/he will know exactly what they’re doing and suffer the consequences as it will no longer be - that they know not what they do.
Liturgy of the Eucharist:
Preparation of the Gifts: “Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation...” (cf. 1 Chron 29:10; Ps 72:18-19; 119:10; Luke 1:68)
Eucharistic Acclamations: “Holy, Holy, Holy Lord, God of power and might...” (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8)
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” (Ps 118:26; Mark 11:10)
Words of Institution: “Take, eat, this is my body...” (Mark 14:22-24; Matt 26:26-28; Luke 22:19-20; 1 Cor 11:23-25)
Memorial Acclamations: “Christ has died; Christ is risen; Christ will come again.” (cf. 1 Thess 4:14-15; 1 Cor 15:3-23)
“Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life. Lord Jesus, come in glory.” (cf. 1 Cor 16:22)
“When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, until you come in glory.” (cf. 1 Cor 11:26)
“Lord, by your cross and resurrection, you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world.” (cf. Luke 4:42)
Lord’s Prayer: “Our Father in heaven...” (Matt 6:9-13; cf. Luke 11:2-4; Mark 14:36; Gal 4:6)
Doxology: “For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours...”
(found only in some biblical manuscripts after Matt 6:13; cf. Rev 4:11; 1 Chron 29:11)
Greeting of Peace: “The peace of the Lord be with you always.” (cf. John 14:27; 16:33; 20:19-20; 20:26)
Breaking of the Bread: “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world...” (cf. John 1:29, 36; cf. Rev 5:6-13; 22:1-3)
Preparation before Communion: “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” (cf. Luke 7:1-10)
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Biblical_Mass_Texts.htm
As you can see Mary it’s part of the liturgy we proclaim as the mystery of our faith, “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.”
The Holy Rosary - (see posts #58+#77)- when you check out the link in #58 you’ll see further scriptural meditation on this beautiful gift.
Reciting the Holy Rosary is like being brought to the Blessed Mother’s side and together we implore her Son’s mercy and grace. It allows us to experience the depth of Jesus Christ’s love for us. Their presence is very real and palpable that one can almost feel their comforting embrace. One is at peace with the world; nothing else matters. It is a prime time for reflection and relaxation in God and in the Blessed Mother’s presence.
PS: DO me a favor Mary, when you’re checking out #58+#77, let me know if you think the biblical references are “fables”. Here also...thanks.
annalex, do you a picture of - Mary Queen of Heaven? And a little background if you’ve got time. Thanks. :)
I flee from it
Good. Here’s someone else fleeing from the Holy Rosary:
[img]http://www.wga.hu/art/v/vicentin/lepanto1.jpg[/img]
Another doctrine many Protestants object to is that Mary is the Queen of Heaven. So what Biblical justification is there for this?
Mary Queen of Heaven
Another doctrine many Protestants object to is that Mary is the Queen of Heaven. So what Biblical justification is there for this?
Rev 12: 1-5: A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven; an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Here is a Bible passage that shows Mary crowned in heaven. She wears a heavenly crown of twelve stars. A crown plainly denotes Queenship. How much more clearly could Mary’s honour be illustrated?
http://www.ourladyweb.com/mary-defended.html
This is an ecumenical thread. Antagonism is not allowed.
So Mary shows up with Jesus as well...Jesus is in the wafer and wine...Where's Mary??? Learning more about your religion all the time...
If I was to offer adoration to your Mother of God, I can't help but think I'd rather offer it to the Father of God instead...At least the Father of God is still a 'God'...
Can I ask you if it was the word “blasphemy” was the reason you removed my post to Dr Eckleburg?
Obviously. If you wish to be antagonistic then engage your correspondent on an “open” thread.
Thank you, chase, for the post. It’s good to see the verses here and my prayer is that people truly believe them and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation. We can all recite verses but does it just become a habit or do you really believe what they say and are you trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation? I appreciate your sending me these.
Those of us on these threads who are not Catholics do have a problem with the way Mary is put on a pedestal and often appearing to be equal or even above Christ. It’s not that we disrespect or dishonor her. NO. She IS the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. We honor her for that. Too often she’s nearly worshipped for being more than that (co-redemptrix, salvific, sinless, no other children, etc.). I know the other poster isn’t making fun of Mary. He pokes at what some Catholics have made of her.
Bless you. Mary
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