You wrote:
As if these monstrous absurdities were not enough, another absurdity that logically follows from the supposition is that those who have died in in the Christian faith and for it have perished. In other words the premise completely precludes any hope of ANY life after death, bodily or not. There is also no future retribution if death is the destruction and extinction of the man.
But, death is NOT the destruction and extinction of man. Man’s going into the state of death is with resurrection in view. Otherwise, it would indeed be destruction and extinction.
You wrote:
I’ve also notice something very curious about your paraphrase of 2 Corinthians 5:6-8: ... What is the textual basis in 5:6 for your rendering of apo tou kuriou, “in the Lord”? I don’t see ANY case where apo is translated “in”.
Please accept my sincere apologies. You are absolutely correct here. Apo should have been set forth as “from.” I was hurriedly typing and thought I had adequately proof-read what I had typed. I’m very sorry – it was a serious mistake that I should have caught.
You wrote:
Second, what is the textual basis in 5:8 for your interpretation of ekdhmhsai (5658) ek tou swmatov, as “out of reality”? And what is the textual basis for your rendering of the preposition, (5658) prov “in relationship to”?
Pros means “toward,” and one definition of toward is “in relation to.”
You wrote:
In light of the significance of Paul’s ambassadorship, and the meaning of the words endemeo and ekdemeo, what does it mean that they would much rather prefer :
to go abroad
emigrate, depart to be or live abroad
apart from (pick one)
the body both of men or animals
a dead body or corpse
the living body
the bodies of planets and of stars (heavenly bodies)or
a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body, so in the NT of the church
AND
to be among one’s own people, dwell in one’s own country, stay at home
to the advantage of at, near, by to, towards, with, with regard to
the Lord.?
As an example of what I am trying to convey by endemeo and ekdemeo, consider the first visit to Antioch in Pisidia as set forth in Acts 13. Their ministry was “to the Jew first” (Rom 1:16), so on the first sabbath day after their arrival they went into the synagogue and sat down (13-14). Thus, in reality, they were endemeo, that is, among their own people. They were not at home, but they were among their own kind. And they were fully received as such, for after the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them saying, “Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.” (13:15).
You wrote:
It has also occurred to me that you have not cited a single passage by Paul or any other New Testament writer that explicitly or otherwise states that physical death is the destruction and extinction of the man in his entirety.
That’s because, as I have stated, death is not the destruction and extinction of the man. He enters the state of death with resurrection in view. Otherwise, it would be destruction. But, because of resurrection he will take up where he left off.
You wrote:
I have proved to you that Paul had the same view of angels and spirits and the resurrection as the Pharisees, which included the existence of disembodied human spirits in conscious existence, (you yourself admit this was their view) and yet you have not put forth one example from his writing or any other N.T. writing that states otherwise in support of your position.
Again, I believe that Paul believed in angels and spirits, as do I (which I have confessed). I don’t see anything about disembodied spirits. This is a term that doesn’t make sense. So why would I quote Scripture regarding my supposed disagreement, when in fact I do not disagree, nor have I said that I disagree.
Finally, as a separate topic: how do you do the formatting that you do? I know how to do all kinds of formatting in all kinds of documents, but I can’t get anything to take when posting here. There! I confessed my ignorance of this. Can you please help me out?
Most browsers have a "View Source" option under "View". When I use Windows, there is a little utility that I downloaded from Microsoft that allows one to highlight a portion of HTML text, right click and choose "View Partial Source". Very handy. When I use a Mac I have just choose View Source and then find the portion that I want to use.
Your mileage may vary, but the Microsoft link is here:
Internet Explorer 5 Web Developer Accessories
What then, is the state of death before the resurrection, and what is the final state of the wicked?
I don't want to put words in your mouth. I've tried, "ceases to exist" and "unconscious", to describe your view of death but you don't like those. You don't like, " the destruction and extinction of man", because of the resurrection. How about "Man has no conscious existence apart from the body after he dies", or "temporary annihilation (before the resurrection) ?
If the body is the man, or the man is the body, how can a man be said to be dead while he is alive?
Again, I believe that Paul believed in angels and spirits, as do I (which I have confessed).I don’t see anything about disembodied spirits. This is a term that doesn’t make sense. So why would I quote Scripture regarding my supposed disagreement, when in fact I do not disagree, nor have I said that I disagree.
When Jesus had risen from the dead his disciples were terrified and supposed that they had seen a spirit. Jesus said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" What does that mean?
Cordially,