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To: MEGoody; DManA
The Protestant Reformation said you can do what you want to do? I heartily disagree with that characterization. The Protestant Reformation was about getting back to God’s truth. While you might believe that they were wrong with what they believe to be truth, that’s not the same as ‘you can do what you want’.

First of all, let's review what I actually said:

This is a phenomenon of liberal modernism, which was basically started with the Great Western Schism (or, as some call it, the Protestant Reformation). Liberalism basically states that I can do as I want to do. Reformation theology (through the 5 solas) essentially says the same thing, but on a theological basis.

You argue with that point, but take a look at it from a Catholic's perspective for a second. In the communities formed in the wake of Luther/Calvin/Zwingli, there are wide divergences in their core theology. Yet all claim to be "sola scriptura." How can there be all of these divergences in theology if "sola scriptura" is accurate? Is it right to baptize infants or is it not? Is it right to baptize by infusion or must it be done by immersion? And so on. You may have one view. Others, who are adherents to other confessions, do not agree with your position, whatever that position may be. I guarantee it! Yet both you and those who disagree claim to be "sola scriptura." But who provides the authoritative interpretation that this is what the scriptures really mean when they say that! I hear claimed "the Holy Spirit teaches me what it really means." All well and good, but "the Holy Spirit teaches" Joe down the road something completely different. But both are "sola scriptura."

You can take a look at the other four solas, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus, soli Deo gloria, and you will see differing interpretations of all of the above. Sometimes WIDELY divergent interpretations. Yet all CLAIM to be able to let their conscience be their guide (moved by the Holy Spirit, of course).

From the perspective of a Catholic, it appears to be chaos. It appears like "every man for himself." It appears that you can find some group to agree with your personal understanding of theology, if you'd like. If you drink, you can find a group that supports drinking and claims to be 5 Solas©. If you don't like drinking, you can find a different group that opposes drinking and claims to be 5 Solas©. If you like homosexuality, you can find a group that claims to be 5 Solas© and agrees with you. If you think all homosexuals should be hunted down like dogs and killed, you can find a group that claims to be 5 Solas© and will give you moral cover for your actions. You don't like blacks or you don't like whites. Just look around. You can find a 5 solas© group that will agree with you.

Does that mean that they all are practicing the 5 solas? No, of course not. But who are you and upon what authority do you dare to call another group wrong? You have no such authority. Or at least no more authority than the other group's criticism of you and your practices. Your particular group may have some sort of ecclesiastic hierarchy, like the Lutherans, the Methodists, or the Presbyterians. But it might not. And even if it has one, does criticism from a Lutheran body have direct impact on a Presbyterian body? No, of course not. Nor should it! Then you have groups where the congregation, through their elected representatives (maybe), elects the person who is in charge! Talk about being unbiblical and backwards! (if it is Biblical, show me an example where the population elected a bishop! (Don't even try Matthias in Acts 1, either. They drew lots...and the ones making the nominations were other apostles, not the masses of the laity!)). There is no authority. Can you seriously tell me that this situation (umpteen denominations and umpteen interpretations of Scripture (both from a doctrinal and practical point of view)) is Biblical (See I Cor 1-3) or gives any sort of glory to God?

Can there be any wonder why a Catholic, looking at the tangled mess of Protestant groups, can say that it is "every man for himself?" You may not see it that way, as is your right, but can you comprehend why it looks that way from somebody who is not a Protestant?

BTW, I'm really not trying to start a fight. I am just trying to help you see this through my eyes a bit. I'm not trying to get you to change your way of worship or belief. If it works for you and you are able to come to a knowledge of the Truth of Christ through it, I am happy for you. I know many very wonderful Protestant believers who are tremendous witnesses for the redeeming work of Christ through their lives. But sometimes you need to look at things from a different perspective (IMHO/FWIW/YMMV)

DManA, I think I covered your comment, His Living Word and the Holy Spirit informs ours, with the remarks above.

108 posted on 05/30/2008 4:18:30 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
How can there be all of these divergences in theology if "sola scriptura" is accurate?

If you had simply said they can't all be right, or that they ended up in error when they went searching for truth, that would be one thing. But that isn't what you said.

You argue with that point, but take a look at it from a Catholic's perspective for a second.

Why? You certainly don't try to see the opposing position from the Protestant viewpoint. (Obviously, no Protestant would say the Reformation was about doing what you want - theologically or any other way.)

112 posted on 06/02/2008 6:54:37 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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