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To: John Leland 1789; vladimir998; Petronski
I am accomplishing my purpose. I am getting the voices out, so that non-Catholics can read what is understood of them by Catholics.

??? Why that response to my post?

It doesn’t shake me, because I know that there have always been Christians who intimate with the Lord Jesus Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit, and yes, know it, since the time of the Apsotles who were never Catholic (by the Vatican’s definition), nor Protestant (by the Geneva definition). The idea that one must be one or the other if one is a Christian is a falacy and a fantasy.

Jesus established one Church(John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many. Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18). The Canon of Scripture had not yet been written when heresies began. We know from Scripture ( Acts 8:9-11) that there were others who claimed to be christian. Simon Magus was one of the first to mislead others into heresy.

You would do well to read the Early Church Fathers to gain a better understanding of life in the first and second century. The film Quo Vadis provides a decent rendering. Keep in mind that these early christians were persecuted for their Catholic faith; because that was the only christian church. They were covered with pitch and turned into human torches to light the Colloseum. Husbands, wives and children were fed to animals as sport for the entertainment of the Roman pagan citizenry. Yet they went to their deaths, singing hymns. Why? Because they believed in what the Apostles taught them.

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." - John 6:51-56

No one gives up their life for a lie!

405 posted on 05/27/2008 10:33:20 AM PDT by NYer (John 6:51-58)
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To: NYer
“Jesus established one Church(John 17:22-23).”

****************

If that church is described in John 17, then it consists of all those in who Christ dwells. You have provided the verse.

Many don't have a favorable opinion of Christians who can say positively in great faith that they KNOW that they are saved and that Christ dwells within. Am I correct to state that Catholicism teaches that one can not really know until death?

The Church of which Christ was made Head when God raised Him from the dead and sat Him at His own right Hand far above all heavens (Ephesians 1), is not something dependent upon any earthly head, edifices, sacraments or ordinances performed with men's hands, earthly priesthoods, costumed clergy (or any clergy, for that matter). It cannot be entered through any earthly church or organization. Not one I might belong to, not one you might belong to, no earthly thing.

435 posted on 05/28/2008 12:15:02 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
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