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To: annalex
The scripture speaks of righteousness or justification all three times. You want to call it sanctification -- which in itself would be fine, as it is the same process as justification -- but you insist justification was a one time event.

Every Protestant will passionately agree that the subject of Hebrews 11 is saving faith—the kind that pleases God and wins his approval

'Cause the Bible tells me so?

Or they may work with God more than others, -- compare the parable of the Talents. Also see, for example, Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies: do good, and lend, hoping for nothing thereby...

Now, I agree that eternal life -- salvation -- is either obtained or lost, but once it is obtained, there are degrees.

St. Paul ends that discourse with "I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)". What we have here is the struggle that is going on as long as one lives. A believer is equipped to win the race, but struggle it is nevertheless.


80 posted on 05/28/2008 5:48:13 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Abraham believed..it was counted to him. It was a one time deal

It says that he believed and it was counted to him. It does not say it was a one time deal, because the scripture enumerates other times when Abraham was justified through his acts, and in fact you don't dispute that. Your real dispute is with the fact that some people reject God and some don't, what you call Arminian view. But at that point you leave the scripture: you want to speculate how apparent rejection of God deep down, ineffably, means God did not choose them in the first place. I am only interested in the scripture. The scripture says Abraham was justified repeatedly.

The pattern repeats down your post. I agree with you here and there, -- for example, God does draw the believer as all faith is from God, and of course there is nothing but supernatural joy in heaven. But mostly what you do is build a philosophical speculation about free will -- or absence thereof -- and you fit what scripture you come across intot he speculation. I just read what's written: Abraham was justified severla times; Paul struggled with faith like all the rest of us, etc. If that doesn't fit my preconceived philosophy, I abandon the philosophy.

81 posted on 05/28/2008 8:23:08 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: HarleyD

Do I understand, then, that you believe in free will?


84 posted on 05/29/2008 4:55:49 AM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words:"It's too late"))
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To: HarleyD
This does raise a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Christians often criticize non-Christians for supporting sinful activities. How on earth would they realize what a sinful activity is without being enlightened by God?

They are enlightened by God (Rom.1) that is why they are without excuse.

Paul states that there was a sin among believers that even the heathen found vile (1Cor.5)

87 posted on 05/29/2008 5:30:53 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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