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To: HarleyD
Our justification rest with Christ-not works that we do after we have been made into believers

Akin explains that being "made into believer" is really a process; see also the preceding thread, linked in the article trailer. Since it is a process, the righteousness of Christ that we receive has degrees. We see it around us, and the scripture makes references to degrees of righteousness, as the author notes, for example, when it describes human life a a process of building in 1 Cor 3. I know you would disagree, but you don't seem to have a scriptural arguemnt here, or do you?

our souls don't grow "dark". ... Rather God will chasten us to bring us back into fellowship with Him.

I think you are arguing with metaphors here. The Catholic view is that whatever metaphor you like, sin and righteousness are objective, real conditions of the soul, rather than judicial fiction. Eph 5:8 does not dispute moral realism.

mistake these verses as applying to "redeemed" man

The author, being Catholic, does not subscribe to the notion that redeemed is a binary condition. This is the whole premise, that redemption is a lifelong process (and in fact it is resumed in Purgatory, as 1 Cor 3 teaches, but that is for some other thread). Botht he white color of righteousness and the red of sin are objective progressively changing conditions of the soul.

I will go outside Protestant doctrine and simply state that rewards will be meaningless in heaven

That is going outside of the scripture also; are you aware of that?

Romans 4:22-25 posted above not withstanding, I would also point to Philippians or Peter

But none say that God sees us exactly as Christ. They simply relate our righteousness obtain through faith to the work of Christ.

the author seems to not understand that our salvation does not rest upon our merits of things that we accomplish after we are saved

Did you read Part V? I think, you illustrated the same "hangup about the word merit" that Akin tries to dispel.

68 posted on 05/25/2008 7:12:09 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Akin explains that being "made into believer" is really a process; see also the preceding thread, linked in the article trailer. Since it is a process, the righteousness of Christ that we receive has degrees. We see it around us, and the scripture makes references to degrees of righteousness

Protestants would say that what you see with believers are not the "degrees of righteousness"; rather it is the sanctification process. Believers are already made righteous because of Christ. A person is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. The purification of believers, be it quickly or slowing, is the sanctification process at work.

The Catholic view is that whatever metaphor you like, sin and righteousness are objective, real conditions of the soul,

Sin and righteousness are real objectives. I'm simply saying that a person is made righteous at one point in time, just as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. It is a one time act. What is missing from Catholic doctrine is the sanctification process.

The author, being Catholic, does not subscribe to the notion that redeemed is a binary condition. This is the whole premise, that redemption is a lifelong process

Yes, I believe the author doesn't subscribe to the notion that redemption is a binary condition. He's wrong, which is my point. It wasn't a life long process for the thief on the cross. It certainly wasn't for Abraham, Moses, David, Jeremiah, Paul, Peter, and the number of people our Lord said, "Your faith has saved you..". A person's father is either God and they have been adopted into God's family or they are a son of the devil. There is no sometimes this, sometimes that.

2Co 5:17 So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

But none say that God sees us exactly as Christ.

We are married to Christ-we become one with Him.

om 7:4 So, my brothers, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ so that you should be married to Another, even to Him raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.

Did you read Part V? I think, you illustrated the same "hangup about the word merit" that Akin tries to dispel.

I'll go back and reread it but he must not have done a very good job. ;O)

73 posted on 05/26/2008 5:50:45 PM PDT by HarleyD
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